Posted on 02/15/2002 6:50:19 AM PST by DoSomethingAboutIt
Libertarians in Santa Barbara, California have scored a victory for freedom of association by helping to nullify a resolution that censured the local Boy Scouts chapter.
On November 14, county supervisors approved a statute forbidding the government from discriminating against private organizations -- even if that group has "incorrect membership requirements," said Santa Barbara LP Secretary Robert Bakhaus.
"Even the U.S. Supreme Court had said the Boy Scouts have the right to associate, and make their own internal rules as they choose," he said. "If LPers could not lead in such a case as local government censuring the Boy Scouts, who would?"
The new statute invalidated a resolution adopted in March by a 3-2 vote, which censured the Boy Scouts for refusing to allow gay men to serve as scoutmasters.
County commissioners said the Boy Scout's policy violated the country's anti-discrimination law. The censure would have allowed county officials to prevent Scouts from using local camp grounds, leasing property from the city, or passing out leaflets on school grounds.
However, the Boy Scouts of America said the gay lifestyle violated the organization's oath, which requires members to be "morally straight." It won a U.S Supreme court decision in June 2000, which affirmed its right to decide who could be a Boy Scout.
Bakhaus said Libertarians support the right of the Boy Scouts to set their own membership requirements without government interference -- even if some Libertarians personally oppose those requirements.
"Even bigots have rights," he said. "Private organizations [should have] the right to make their own membership and leadership rules."
After the commission passed its resolution in March, "libertarian sympathizer" Michael Warnken and local LP members collected 20,000 signatures to put an initiative on the ballot to overturn it.
Libertarians helped drum up publicity for the campaign by sending letters to the editors of local papers, appearing at meetings and rallies, and speaking out on local television shows, said Bakhaus.
A number of conservative Republicans also joined the effort, which shows that small organizations "can't afford to be shy about having allies," he said.
"[Our LP affiliate is] too small to abolish taxation or achieve other radical reforms outright. We must first develop our clout by helping enforce the current good laws limiting government, while rallying better liberals and conservatives to uphold the best American traditions of freedom," he said.
However, the coalition ran into opposition from the county attorney's office, which filed a suit to stop the petitioning.
The attorney claimed the initiative language was "vague," and that only a statute or regulation -- not a resolution -- was subject to invalidation by initiative.
In response, activists changed the language of the measure meet state initiative requirements, and hired their own attorney to defend them from legal attacks, said Bakhaus.
With the initiative back on track and a large public turn-out at the commission's November meeting, county commissioners decided to nullify the anti-Boy Scout resolution, said Bakhaus.
"[It] was approved as law without a vote of the people, thanks in part to a large public showing -- but mostly by the fears of an electoral backlash if it went to a vote," he said.
Most importantly, Libertarians learned valuable lessons from the experience, said Bakhaus.
"The [Santa Barbara LP] learned that a countywide petition drive is not outside the bounds of doability," he said. "We also learned that a 1% investment ratio can be leveraged into victory, if that investment consists of extensive knowledge and experience about the intricacies of real politics."
Your repeat of the obvious makes no point. - Thanks for conceding.
BTW, sodomy was a violation of the common law.
So what? Such acts in public can still be regulated by law.
In private, such acts are constitutionally unenforceable, as due process is violated. - And, -- as I've explained to you ad nauseum.
Santa Clause dude? I'm not even gonna honor that with an answer.
How much lower can you stoop than to use Santa Clause as an excuse to avoid the issue. Nailed it on target and you can't deal with it.
You are comparing the santa clause myth to being able to buy crack at the store, and the influence on children?
That's a lie and you know it. BTW the flying Santa Clause thing is not a myth rather, it's a lie that many parents and the "child raising village" try to convince children is the truth. Myths are factious stories portrayed as fictitious stories. The Santa Clause lie is a factious story portrayed to young children as the truth. To lie is to to intentionally deceive.
Here's exactly what I wrote.
Seeing as you argued in favor of Hillary's bogus claim that it takes a village to raise a child, here's the hypocritical dark side of "people who share similar standards" 316. How about it start at home where most parents tell their children the three reality distorting lies -- flying Santa Clause, Easter Bunny and tooth fairy. Ah, but it takes a village to further distort reality in young innocent minds via telling/living the three lies. But those three lies are all told/lived in the name of having fun, right? Is it any wonder that children are prone to telling lies considering that parents are first to teach their children by example how to lie and that it's a means to having fun -- not to mention teaching by example that getting a reality distorting buzz from alcohol is fun. Then parents try to teach their children that it's wrong to lie and do reality distorting drugs. Is it any wonder that some children chose to take reality distorting drugs to have fun. I mean, parents and the "child raising village" have taught by example that distorting reality in the name of fun is a good thing. 360
No wonder you are in the 1% party.
It really doesn't matter. You are not in my state, and my state has the constitutional power to prohibit harmful substances. The people of my state see hard drugs as a VERY VERY harmful substance and we will prohibit them. Work on your own state.
Seeing as you argued in favor of Hillary's bogus claim that it takes a village to raise a child, here's the hypocritical dark side of "people who share similar standards" 316. How about it start at home where most parents tell their children the three reality distorting lies -- flying Santa Clause, Easter Bunny and tooth fairy. Ah, but it takes a village to further distort reality in young innocent minds via telling/living the three lies. But those three lies are all told/lived in the name of having fun, right? Is it any wonder that children are prone to telling lies considering that parents are first to teach their children by example how to lie and that it's a means to having fun -- not to mention teaching by example that getting a reality distorting buzz from alcohol is fun. Then parents try to teach their children that it's wrong to lie and do reality distorting drugs. Is it any wonder that some children chose to take reality distorting drugs to have fun. I mean, parents and the "child raising village" have taught by example that distorting reality in the name of fun is a good thing. 360
You will agree that if I told my child that santa clause was real, and the rest of the community told him/her that he was not, my child would most likely not believe in Santa. And if I wanted my child to believe in santa, I should live in a community that also plays along.
So you see, you proved me right. Your desired anarchy is a recipe for disaster.
Ok, if you insist. I will use your argument against you.
As you prepare to distort and/or outright lie...
You will agree that if I told my child that santa clause was real, and the rest of the community told him/her that he was not, my child would most likely not believe in Santa.
I do not agree and I do not disagree because you put forth a straw man argument that in no way addressed the issue of my argument.
And if I wanted my child to believe in santa, I should live in a community that also plays along.
It's your life and apparently you have no problem with telling reality distorting lies to your children in the name of having fun yet you are surprised when children take reality distorting drugs in the name of having fun.
So you see, you proved me right. Your desired anarchy is a recipe for disaster.
Isn't that a hoot. I argue from fundamental honesty -- myself advocating people be honest -- and you claim it's anarchy, while you advocate that people tell reality distorting lies. What are you going to tell us next, that your alcohol consumption hasn't adversely effected your judgment?
It's FREAKING santa clause man. Name ONE person that has overdosed, become addicted, became psychotic as a result of SANTA CLAUSE!!!!!!!!
Seeing as you argued in favor of Hillary's bogus claim that it takes a village to raise a child, here's the hypocritical dark side of "people who share similar standards" 316. How about it start at home where most parents tell their children the three reality distorting lies -- flying Santa Clause, Easter Bunny and tooth fairy. Ah, but it takes a village to further distort reality in young innocent minds via telling/living the three lies. But those three lies are all told/lived in the name of having fun, right? Is it any wonder that children are prone to telling lies considering that parents are first to teach their children by example how to lie and that it's a means to having fun -- not to mention teaching by example that getting a reality distorting buzz from alcohol is fun. Then parents try to teach their children that it's wrong to lie and do reality distorting drugs. Is it any wonder that some children chose to take reality distorting drugs to have fun. I mean, parents and the "child raising village" have taught by example that distorting reality in the name of fun is a good thing.
Zod has a problem. If his mother asked how she looked when she went to her book club, I am sure in his fundimental honesty he would be forced to say, "Like an old wreck"!
There is a void of common sense in what Zod says to you.
You are worrying me. You have some hidden agenda against Santa Clause. Did santa not bring you anything when you were a kid?
You missed the Easter bunny, tooth fairy, parents telling their children reality distorting lies in the name of having fun as well as several other key points. You are real hung up on the Santa Clause issue while avoiding the real and much larger issue. But hey, that's okay you have no idea how you are helping that which you oppose.
Seeing as you argued in favor of Hillary's bogus claim that it takes a village to raise a child, here's the hypocritical dark side of "people who share similar standards" 316. How about it start at home where most parents tell their children the three reality distorting lies -- flying Santa Clause, Easter Bunny and tooth fairy. Ah, but it takes a village to further distort reality in young innocent minds via telling/living the three lies. But those three lies are all told/lived in the name of having fun, right? Is it any wonder that children are prone to telling lies considering that parents are first to teach their children by example how to lie and that it's a means to having fun -- not to mention teaching by example that getting a reality distorting buzz from alcohol is fun. Then parents try to teach their children that it's wrong to lie and do reality distorting drugs. Is it any wonder that some children chose to take reality distorting drugs to have fun. I mean, parents and the "child raising village" have taught by example that distorting reality in the name of fun is a good thing. 372
LOL, your childhood must have REALLY sucked.
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