M1911 vs. M9

The Sight M1911-A1 ^ | unknown | unattributed

[Dawgsquat]

M1911vsM9

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M1911 vs. M9

In 1985, the United States Armed Forces replaced the M1911 with the Beretta 92 F to the everlasting consternation of 1911 devotees everywhere. There were several reasons for the switch. The U.S. was the only NATO country not using a 9mm as the standard issue sidearm and there was a desire to issue a pistol chambered for the ubiquitous 9mm for logistical reasons. The Beretta will hold 15 rounds in its magazine as compared with 7 rounds of the military issue 1911 magazine and is lighter and easier to field strip than the 1911. The double action/single action Beretta was perceived as being a safer pistol to carry in a state of readiness than the "cocked and locked" 1911. In some quarters, the .45 ACP was viewed as too powerful and difficult to control for those having only nominal training with the weapon.

Defenders of the 1911 will vehemently contest these last three perceptions, pointing to the superior trigger and durability of the 1911, and the superior stopping power and inherent accuracy of the .45 ACP cartridge. In terms of safety, three conditions must be met for the cocked and locked 1911 to fire: (1) a firing grip must depress the grip safety; (2) the manual safety must be taken off, and (3) the trigger must be pulled. Nevertheless, it looks scary and the Armed Forces have documented negligent discharges from improperly handled pistols.

It could be said that the 1911 fell victim to its own mythology. I grew up hearing the stories of the .45--that it kicked so badly that an inexperienced person couldn't hit a door from twenty feet away with one, that a man, struck anywhere on the body by a .45 round would be knocked down as if hit by a truck, and that you could shoot down a Japanese Zero with a .45. (A Zero was downed with a .45 but by a head shot on the pilot by an American aviator parachuting from a bomber. The Zero was trying to strafe the American.) In 1998 The FBI S.W.A.T. team adopted the Springfield 1911A1 as standard issue. Anecdotal evidence out of Desert Storm indicates that the Berettas jammed because of the fine sand in the desert and the Marines broke out the 1911's.

My Own Opinion:

The M9, Beretta 92 F, has the smoothest slide and the lightest recoil spring of any major caliber pistol I know of. When you rack the slide of the M9, you can feel the precision and quality of its manufacture. Those bottomless 15-round magazines could prove to be life savers should you decide to shoot it out with the Crips or invade a small foreign country. My wife is of the opinion that the Beretta is the nicest shooting autoloader around. It has a very good trigger for a DA/SA and the long barrel and sight radius give it adequate accuracy.

Too bad the 92 F is a 9mm. The 9mm is a reasonable defensive round. It will do its part if you do yours, but of course, the same could be said of a .32 caliber pocket gun. Questions have been raised about the "stopping power" of the 9mm and people whose lives depend on their handguns have been migrating away from the 9mm and toward the .40 S&W and .45 ACP in recent years. If I had to shoot someone and I had one shot to do the job, I'd rather that shot be a 230 grain .45 ACP.

My target and competition gun is a Kimber Compact. The question of "inherent accuracy" is the grist of endless debates, but I do believe that some cartridges are more inherently accurate than others. I base this on nothing more than my own experience with shooting them. In my hands, .38 and .45 are more accurate rounds than 9mm and .40 S&W. I shoot .45 with much greater accuracy than I do 9mm, so it is more rewarding for me to shoot .45 for fun and competition. .45 ACP is heavier and more expensive than 9mm, and folks who are particularly recoil sensitive will enjoy the 9mm more than the .45. Last, but not least, 9mm pistols tend to be lighter and more comfortable to carry than 1911s, although some lightweight models of the 1911 are beginning to appear.

Did the Armed Forces make a good choice? Well, I hope so. The M1911 isn't the best gun for a beginner. In an absolute sense, the M9 is probably safer at ready than an M1911, although, in the hands of a trained person, the 1911 is perfectly safe. The additional rounds might also be an advantage to the nominally trained soldier or law enforcement officer possessed of marginal marksmanship. Which one do I like the best? The M1911, of course.

 

MORE BERETTA 92 LINKS

Beretta's Model 92FS Page

Beretta Info Page

Francesco's Unofficial Beretta Page

M9 Manual (PDF) from BiggerHammer

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This page was last updated on 12/13/01

[Joe Brower]

in the day of ten round magazines, it certainly makes sense to carry the most powerful ten bullets your pistol can hold.

A-yep. Of course, the same anti's who shoved that law through the legislature now decry us peons and our "pocket rockets". The law of unintended consequences at it's finest.

I have heard and read many times that most gunfights are over in six or seven shots. Never having been in a running gunbattle myself (paintball excepted), I can't personally vouch for this factoid, pro or con.

This, of course, doesn't include LEOs and FLEAs who are in the habit of dumping dozens of rounds into unarmed victims in a panicked frenzy...

[Shooter 2.5]

Thanks for the idea of IPSC but my IDPA matches are 45 minutes away. I also like the idea of using concealed weapons. My main complain of that club is they get too complicated with the scenarios and they don't go from a concealed which I do. Other than that, they are a wonderful group of guys and girls with a real dedication for inspiring new members.

Now if I can only figure out how to get a car out to the range that we can sit in to do a scenario where the owner doesn't mind getting it accidently shot up, I will be very happy.

[Joe Brower]

Roger that. I never purchase a firearm with the thought of selling it later. Guns and ammo are the precious metal of the future.

[Joe Brower]

are you saying that 7.62nato is cheaper ammo than 5.56???

Hard to beleive, but right now, this is so. This is specifically in regards to FMJ milsurp. Do some searches on the web and you'll see. Radway Green (Royal Ordinance) and Portugese work particulary well in my national match M1A. My FAL, on the other hand, works equally well with just about anything.

For accuracy, I have found Black Hills to be superb -- I get sub-MOA with their 165 and 168 grain loads out of both the M1A and Remington 700 PSS.

[Dawgsquat]

Awesome! That looks like fun. Bookmarked that link. Thanks.

[wardaddy]

My little brother has a tactical HK45.....very very tuff gun but I must confess I'm not very good with it. It's a little bulky for my taste. I love Sigs...we have a little .380 spy gun...P220 (???)....anyhow it's like a finger extension.....a benchmark in pistol ergonomics for me with regards to semi-autos.

[Dawgsquat]

Many thanks. I'm getting a real education here.

[wardaddy]

pardon me Rogue but it would be a P-232 in Nitron finish......I had to look it up..sorry.

[wardaddy]

Guns and ammo are the precious metal of the future.

Well said..

[Noumenon]

Interesting bit of history, there. It also jibes somewhat with my wife's and my own experience in 'normalizing' our weapons compliment. WRT pistols, I've always favored the .45 and the 10mm. For years, my concealed carry of choice was a stock Colt Commander, carried cocked and locked.

But Candace's enthusiasm and willingness to protect and defend dictated the need for caliber and magazines in common. After trying numerous calibers and makes, the lowest common denominator for the both of us was a SIG 229 in .40. This is what shot and handled equally well for us. Among the factors we considered were ergonomics and mechanical simplicity. Ease of reload under stress. Ease of clearing jams under stress. Relative ease of blind disassemble/reassemble. Could the pistol be easily be reloaded with one hand? Could the pistol be fired accurately and under stress with one hand? All of these items were part of our martial arts training and weighed heavily in our choice.

The SIG did best of all in these areas, and going down to a .40 from a .45 wasn't too much of a compromise.

[Eugene Tackleberry]

Whaddayaknow! Portugese .308 $179 delivered from ammoman.com. Cheaper than .45ACP even. Maybe I should get a .308. How hard is it to assemble an FAL from a parts kit?

[Jerry_M]

Re. 36.

Didn't you mean M1911 and M1911A1?

[Noumenon]

I have a Glock 20 in 10mm, peep rear sight, 3.5lb trigger and a 15 round mag..."who could ask for anything more".

I see that you are a man of taste and distinction. Like youself, I bought many, many of those 15 round mags before they got scarce and expensive. I went with orange twin dot tritium rear sights and a single green tritium front blade sight.

[Zathras]

I just got back from two days at Frontsight in Nevada.
After 300 rds of rapid fire combat shooting, I'm glad I dumped my Glock 9mm and got my Kimber 1911.

I hope to write a review of Frontsight soon (I LOVED it).

[Billthedrill]

Hey, wasn't that a 10mm you showed me that time? I thought you wuz a 10mm man...

[wardaddy]

with the er....attachment as well....what are you?...a mob hitman?...LOL.

Scary little gun.....is it made in Germany or elsewhere?