'Axis of Evil' Making U.S. Allies Nervous

FOX ^ | Wednesday, February 06, 2002 | The Associated Press contributed to this report.

[vannrox]

This partial transcript of Special Report with Brit Hume,

[TrueBrit]

"If you ever encounter a napalm attack, either as donor or recipient, you are fully entitled to curse yourself silly. This, however, is a discussion forum, not a napalm attack. If you're confused about the difference, please douse yourself with gasoline and strike a light."

Gosh, so you've never watched Apocalypse Now? That's sad, it's a great film and one everyone should see. I assume that you don't do irony then? The Kurtz thing sort of went over your head did it?

[TrueBrit]

"If you ever encounter a napalm attack, either as donor or recipient, you are fully entitled to curse yourself silly. This, however, is a discussion forum, not a napalm attack. If you're confused about the difference, please douse yourself with gasoline and strike a light."

Gosh, so you've never watched Apocalypse Now? That's sad, it's a great film and one everyone should see. I assume that you don't do irony then? The Kurtz thing sort of went over your head did it?

[TrueBrit]

"If you ever encounter a napalm attack, either as donor or recipient, you are fully entitled to curse yourself silly. This, however, is a discussion forum, not a napalm attack. If you're confused about the difference, please douse yourself with gasoline and strike a light."

Gosh, so you've never watched Apocalypse Now? That's sad, it's a great film and one everyone should see. I assume that you don't do irony then? The Kurtz thing sort of went over your head did it?

[Beetlebuzz]

If you are going to call me a bitch.....then I guess it takes one to know one.

[bloodmeridian]

Not quite, but I was struck by — I think all of us were struck by the gap and perception between the Americans and the Europeans. For the Europeans, September 11 was a big deal, a terrorist attack. We are entitled to respond to it. But basically, they expect the world in a few months from now to go back to the way it was on September 10. They don't think anything fundamental has changed. And the Americans, and certainly President Bush, think September 11 changed everything, and that we no longer can accept regimes like Iraqs and Irans working on weapons of mass destruction, regimes that are in cahoots with terrorists, et cetera.

That's why we lead and they follow. And you know what happens to folks who can't lead or follow.

[Right Wing Professor]

Gosh, so you've never watched Apocalypse Now? That's sad, it's a great film and one everyone should see. I assume that you don't do irony then? The Kurtz thing sort of went over your head did it?

If you think that was irony, laddie, you evidently learned the word from Alanis Morisette. It's a black fly in your Chardonnay, and all that. And I know posting gets you all excited, but try to hit the 'post reply' button only once next time, eh?

[TrueBrit]

"If you think that was irony, laddie, you evidently learned the word from Alanis Morisette. It's a black fly in your Chardonnay, and all that. And I know posting gets you all excited, but try to hit the 'post reply' button only once next time, eh?"

Touche! I blame my ISP and BT for enabling me to post at the speed of a flying slug. My apologies for sending the same nonsense so many times.

[TrueBrit]

"If you are going to call me a bitch.....then I guess it takes one to know one."

RIGHT! That's it! No Xmas card this year! And no pervy sex either!!!

[dighton]

BTW - is your monicker anything to do with Dighton the Dim, convicted in Nottingham in 1193 for publicly having sex with a pig?

Shakespeare, bozo.

[TrueBrit]

are you sure you don't mean Len Deighton, the crafter of thrilling stories?

Anyway, where do you think Shakespeare got it from, bozo?

[VaBthang4]

I dont think the axis is the problem at all.

It is a red herring.

They take umbrage at the word "Evil".

Make no mistake about it...

"Calling these nations an "Axis of Evil" was a calculated move by G.W. to take from Reagan's "Empire of Evil" label for the now defunct Soviet Union.

He [G.W.] knew the SurrenderMonkeys at home and abroad would throw a hissy-fit and as Powell said "swoon"[Faint]. LOL.

He [G.W.] simply doesnt allow their reactions to impact his decisions when it comes to American Security.

[MadIvan]

You are obviously for the terrorists. Anything that allows them to live, means that they have the world within which to bustle. That's plain enough. Of course with your head so far up the Guardian's pompous arse, moral clarity is something which would obviously escape you.

Blair, and I dislike him intensely was right - there is absolutely no excuse for that kind of attack on the WTC. To somehow suggest America is to blame and that they have been anything less than thoughtful and careful in their response, as well as appropriately forceful, is so much pro-terrorist pig swill. You are an embarassment to our country and thank God, in a tiny minority.

Ivan

[TrueBrit]

"You are obviously for the terrorists. Anything that allows them to live, means that they have the world within which to bustle. That's plain enough. Of course with your head so far up the Guardian's pompous arse, moral clarity is something which would obviously escape you."

And you, Ivan Iknowsomuchavich, are so obviously up your own arse that you have ceased to use the one great pumping organ that might distinguish you from a chimp. Moral clarity is a claim, not a reality. Your moral clarity might have some resonance with - what? 10% of the world - the other 90% will not see it as moral clarity, rather than a political and economic agenda. Do you understand what I am saying?

"Blair, and I dislike him intensely was right - there is absolutely no excuse for that kind of attack on the WTC."

So we are agreed on something.

"To somehow suggest America is to blame and that they have been anything less than thoughtful and careful in their response, as well as appropriately forceful, is so much pro-terrorist pig swill."

Again, you parrot Dubya's line. You really cannot accept that any aspect of American policy over X years might have in any way helped bring about the WTC attack? I imagine that you see few grey areas in your life.

You can slag my views as much as you care to, and add in all the insults that you claim are the sign of a bad temper or a losing argument, but the bottom line is this: If, after America has attacked and probably bombed to perdition - perhaps with nuclear weapons - a number of states it considers to be harbouring terrorists, and that could by American definitions include most countries outside America, then at the end of the billions of dollars spent, thousands of lives lost and thousands more displaced, is it likely that anti-American sentiment (the root cause, I believe) still remains, then what will have changed, other than the axis of American interests and influence?

Perhaps in your headlong rush to another war, you might stop to think about that.

"You are an embarassment to our country and thank God, in a tiny minority."

No, you sad git, you have forsaken the enlightened self interest that has characterised British policy on and off throughout centuries for a dogmatic and unyielding viewpoint. YOU are the embarassment, and I do not worry about the ability of most people to see through your simplistic and childish view of the world. Even cowboy movies nowadays are filmed in colour and contain ambiguity. What a shame you cannot move on from the 1950s.

[MadIvan]

You really cannot accept that any aspect of American policy over X years might have in any way helped bring about the WTC attack?

By this statement you prove you are an utter moron, that or you really do not understand the enemy. The Islamic world hates us for WHAT WE ARE - the fact that we don't force women to wear the veil, the fact that we don't bow to Mecca, the fact that we eat pork, watch MTV, and so on and so forth. Admittedly this contempt is sometimes better veiled than others. Two societies with such markedly different approaches to life are bound to come into conflict but the tension exists. Furthermore, the enemy has a religious incentive to "slay the infidel". Read up on Osama. Listen. Learn. You'll find that the first people they'll put up against the wall are whingeing lefties like you and the Guardian editorial staff.

Discussion is not possible with people who believe that they are commanded by God to act in such a manner. It is a matter of survival. You can either help in this or get out of the way of the people who are basically trying to save your sorry arse too.

Ivan

[TrueBrit]

"Remarkable but a bit dated. In 21st century America we are considerably beyond looking for 'root causes'. This was a fashionable social science term from the 1960's and was generally applied to criminals and the poor when liberal social programs failed to correct the personal deficiencies of these people."

I'd say you're well beyond looking for any causes at all. You label it hatred of America, and that is enough, eh?

"Yes 'root causes' seems to have been a necessary formulation when the more elegant and correct "circular causation in a cumulative process' construct of the earlier leftist thinker Gunnar Myrdal seemed unduly harsh and put too much blame on the alleged victim."

But however you dress it up, you either have a meaningless manifestation of evil, or you have causes.

"Anti American" sentiment today seems to be an affliction of European and American intellectuals and Islamic nations All may have reason as their own notions, faiths and shibboleths continually fail to work. Since no one likes to admit that they are inept, stupid or in error, the reason for their failure must be attributed to someone else or in your view another nation."

Yawn. So America's success causes envy, and that in turn makes people fly airliners into skyscrapers. Please. If that's the depth of your analysis, go back to shooting possum.

"As the US is big and the dominant world power it has thus been endowed with an almost omnipotent power. Never mind that a bunch of EU bureaucrats can foil an American corporate giant's merger plans or a crummy Europlane can rapidly acquire 50% of the global civil airliner business."

Oooh!! (produces handbag). So The Airbus is crummy and those evil stinking europeon (as I believe you people spell it?) commie commisars are foiling the business plans of your lantern jawed, blue eyed, God fearing business boys??

"We are big and thus we are to blame even if the Democrats, who actually subscribe to this philosophy hold power. This is really downright silly. One would also hope that the old European leftist bogeyman of the American nuclear cowboy ready to incinerate his enemies at the slightest provocation would have been retired after the failed leftist warnings of imminent nuclear holocaust as they paraded around Greenham Common, yet here again you accuse us of having an itchy nuclear trigger finger."

Actually, I've lost count of the number of numbnuts on this site who would like to see everywhere from the Persian Gulf to India reduced to a glass plain - that is the usual posting, isn't it? Perhaps Dubya would use nukes. I wouldn't put it past him, but I admit to finding it unlikely: I mean once Iraq is "taken out" (another popular phrae round here) then all that god fearing oil will finally be safe.

"If you think America really enjoys protecting Saudi and Kuwaiti oil sheiks you really have us pegged wrong. It aint the 'jewel' in our crown. We have no colonialists living in imperial splendor or government officials ruling the benighted natives just American soldiers sitting out in the desert, hiding their religion and their faces in a thankless job protecting the world's oil supplies from megalomaniacal dictators and Islamic fanatics."

I imagine you don't, and that it's a pain in the arse, but if you want to ensure that global trade is not compromised, then it's the payback that the US government makes to it's corporate backers - and I include both major US political parties in that.

[janis]

I certainly saved time reading this thread. I scrolled down to any really wordy post and if it was 'true brit', i gave it a pass. However, he provoked some great and well reasoned responses. To paraphase that fine lady, Jeanne Kirkpatrick: Appeasement doen't work on the playground and it sure as hell doesn't in international affairs.

[TrueBrit]

"By this statement you prove you are an utter moron, that or you really do not understand the enemy."

how kind of you. I'm a little surprised you didn't spell it as 'The Enemy', for better effect. And now the sweeping generalisation of who this foe is.....

"The Islamic world hates us for WHAT WE ARE - the fact that we don't force women to wear the veil, the fact that we don't bow to Mecca, the fact that we eat pork, watch MTV, and so on and so forth."

Actually, most muslims don't give a flying fook - I think you'll find plenty of the faithful who are happy to drink, watch MTV (or in your obvious case Sky), etc. Perhaps they have different reasons and motivations which don't necessarily lead to the sort of blood lust you've worked yourself into?

"dmittedly this contempt is sometimes better veiled than others. Two societies with such markedly different approaches to life are bound to come into conflict but the tension exists"

The great Us vs. Them thinking that informs so much of your two dimensional bleating. Their aren't two societies, idiot, there are hundreds and they all have values, so interlink, some don't. You might as well say that Londoners have the same values as Scots. All societies are based upon tensions, rather than conflict, but I don't expect you to understand the difference.

"Furthermore, the enemy has a religious incentive to "slay the infidel". Read up on Osama. Listen. Learn. You'll find that the first people they'll put up against the wall are whingeing lefties like you and the Guardian editorial staff."

Oooh I'm parping myself in fear!! bin Laden is *not* representative of the muslim world, as most sane recognise (BTW, you're excused), both in Europe and in the USA. You just keep fuelling your paranoid fantasies, and the rest of will get on with understanding life as an intricate mechanism, rather than one of Ronnie Raygun's movies.

"Discussion is not possible with people who believe that they are commanded by God to act in such a manner."

Which actually includes Dubya, doesn't it?

"It is a matter of survival."

You forgot - they bayonet Belgian babies on their helmets..

"You can either help in this or get out of the way of the people who are basically trying to save your sorry arse too."

I think I'll help be trying to explain to fools like you why you shouldn't allow yourself to get sucked into what is essentially the best excuse ever to curtail freedom and demonise people. But I guess that's your bag, anyway. If the USA wants to protect my rather happy arse, I suggest it starts thinking of ways in which to prevent further terrorism that doesn't include losing it friends (that's a reference back to the original thread heading, BTW).

[MadIvan]

Yawn. So America's success causes envy, and that in turn makes people fly airliners into skyscrapers. Please. If that's the depth of your analysis, go back to shooting possum.

Your condescending attitude towards the Americans is doing us no credit. It certainly reinforces the image that the Americans have of Europeans / Brits behaving like a snobbish elite, which is certainly NOT the case for most British people, I am thoroughly appalled and disgusted by your attitude.

Basically the Americans and we are working together to knock out a terrible threat to us both. Too bad you're such a bloody idiot you can't see the wood for the trees.

Ivan

[TrueBrit]

"I certainly saved time reading this thread. I scrolled down to any really wordy post and if it was 'true brit', i gave it a pass. However, he provoked some great and well reasoned responses. To paraphase that fine lady, Jeanne Kirkpatrick: Appeasement doen't work on the playground and it sure as hell doesn't in international affairs."

Good for you. Saves all that inconvenient and unnecessary thinking, eh?