At N.J. Parish, all Latin all the time

Philadelphia Inquirer ^ | February 3, 2002 | David O'Reilly

[Goetz_von_Berlichingen]

"There's nothing wrong with English which is what people speak in the U.S."
They also speak Spanish, Portuguese, Polish, Italian, Korean, Tagalog, Vietnamese, and everything else, and I have seen liturgies for MOST of them advertised on church bulletin boards. And, yes, there is very much wrong with the "inclusive" ambiguous politically correct language that currently passes for English in the U.S., and which has crept, unauthorised, into vernacular liturgies.

"Besides the majority of Catholics don't understand Latin."
Yup. The majority of Catholics also voted for Bill Clinton twice. Can't beat majority rule, can ya?

"Truly a pointless feel-good exercise."
All religious observance is a "pointless feel-good exercise" when you're on the outside looking in.

"What matters is what is said, not whether it is in Latin."
If you were Catholic you would understand very much why the precise words matter.

"The silliness continues."
Thanks for your tolerance.

[patent]

Thanks for the bump!

patent

[kidd]

Check it out! Our local Latin mass parish made the news. And the Inquirer didn't even trash them. What's going on here?

Is the future of the Catholic Church to be found in its recent past, spurned by many for the past 40 years?

I'm sorry to say it, but your church is being portrayed by the article as "quaint", much like an Amish village would be.

The changes made by Vatican II are based on sound principles. Unfortunately, Vatican II has never been implemented correctly. Expect changes in the Liturgy soon (for example, the Sign of Peace will follow the Greeting, where it makes more sense). Further corrections to Vatican II implementation are forthcoming.

The only basis for saying mass in Latin is for tradition. I prefer understanding to tradition. I am just old enough to remember the mass in Latin. I appreciate the English version all the more.

[Antoninus]

Actually, having responses and prayers in Latin is very nice if you are travelling. I've been to masses in France and Italy, and if they would keep the responses at least in Latin, it would make things much easier to understand--you just need to learn them in one language.

EXACTLY...

[Antoninus]

Ah, If I'd only known when I was down there last May.... I ended up going to the cathedral in the French Quarter.

[Loyalist]

Where I go to Mass (St. Clement's, Ottawa), the Mass is in Latin, but there are two sermons: first in English, then in French.

[Orual]

"I guess you could say I'm a bit conservative," Father Pasley, 46, said and laughed. "I always felt Vatican II went too far" with its reforms.

Deo gratias.

We also say the Rosary before every Mass.

[Antoninus]

I'm sorry to say it, but your church is being portrayed by the article as "quaint", much like an Amish village would be.

I know it. If you knew anything about the biases of the Philly "Stinquirer", you'd be amazed they didn't portray the priest as a racist, drug-dealing, Taliban sympathizer. I consider this a positive article, or at least as close to one as we're likely to see in that fish-wrapper.

The only basis for saying mass in Latin is for tradition. I prefer understanding to tradition. I am just old enough to remember the mass in Latin. I appreciate the English version all the more.

See post 52. As a Novus Ordo kid who never experienced the Latin mass until very recently, I found the reverence and seriousness of the Tridentine Mass very appealing - certainly moreso than the guitar / liturgical dancing masses I experienced in Catholic elementary school and college.

[Dumb_Ox]

Do people prefer not to understand what is being said to them at Mass?

Having had four years of Latin, understanding the Mass is no problem for me. I've also attended a Greek Catholic Divine Liturgy in Slavonic. With a missal and rudimentary knowledge of Russian, I was able to follow the service with nary a misstep. Being in conscious contemplation of the liturgy sure beats being the snoozing pew-warmer I was in my teenage years.

[Antoninus]

"I guess you could say I'm a bit conservative," Father Pasley, 46, said and laughed. "I always felt Vatican II went too far" with its reforms.

I suspect that this statement was either taken out of context or is simply a misquote.

[grossklas]

If you'd like to see some pictures of St. John's and get some history on the church, visit this URL: http://moreimages.tripod.com/imagesite/id1.html Bill

[Harrison Bergeron]

"I prefer understanding to tradition."

I prefer understanding the tradition. The Tridentine Mass was discontinued the year I started second grade. I've attended this church, and I can tell you, it's well worth the experience, even if you don't make it a weekly thing. Hard to make sense of where you're going if you don't bother to learn where you've been. The missals provided in the pews are easy to read with the latin liturgy and responsorials on the right hand pages and the english translations printed on the left.

Sure, it makes sense to conduct a Mass in the local language. But there's more to this traditional congregation than Latin. You won't see t-shirts, cut off shorts, halter tops, sweat suits, lacsadaisical staring or rude disruptive lateness and cross talk at this mass. People actually behave as if they are in the presence of God.

And one more thing - The article didn't mention that most of the congregation consists of young families. From what I was told, this one salient point was what piqued the bishops interest and may have gotten Rome's attention. The political and legal problems that this congregation has survived over the years might have closed most other churches permananently at the very outset. These people are homeschoolers and FReeper material. They don't back down from a fight.

[Antoninus]

And one more thing - The article didn't mention that most of the congregation consists of young families. From what I was told, this one salient point was what piqued the bishops interest and may have gotten Rome's attention. The political and legal problems that this congregation has survived over the years might have closed most other churches permananently at the very outset. These people are homeschoolers and FReeper material. They don't back down from a fight.

You got that right. It's amazing how many 'old fashioned' large Catholic familes go to this parish. The men and boys don't wear t-shirts or football jerseys. Instead of haltertops and hip-huggers, the women actually wear mantillas. Another thing that's not mentioned... Fr. Paisley is a terrific preacher. His sermons are actually based on scripture, he invokes the Church Fathers, and offers authentic, orthodox Catholicism. Shocking!

[Claud]

How far is Berlin from the Newark area? (My family lives in Summit)I haven't been back in just over a year, but I was already planning to check out St. Agnes in Manhattan next time I go back.

nick, you don't have to go all the way to Berlin. I live in Summit and attend a traditional parish in West Orange.

There's also one in Northwest Jersey...Pequannock I think. But nick, you won't be disappointed with St. Agnes either. Wonderful parish with excellent music. I hope you get Fr. Perricone when you go!

[Antoninus]

The article doesn't seem to be telling the whole story w/r to the turnover of pastoral leadership or the legal problems with the ownership of the land. And what's up with the new name? What happened to "Maris Dei?"

When I first started going there, the mission was called 'Opus Mariae Mediatrix'. The priest in residence who ran the place was sent packing when his eminence Bishop DiMarzio was installed in Camden. The mission became a kind of 'probationary' parish about a year and a half ago and that's when Fr. Pasley came into the picture. That's about as much of the story as I know.

This parish has truly been a blessing, though. Fr. Pasley is one of those rare individuals who really is the 'leaven in the bread.'

[Antoninus]

Such silliness. There's nothing wrong with English which is what people speak in the U.S.. Besides the majority of Catholics don't understand Latin. Truly a pointless feel-good exercise. What matters is what is said, not whether it is in Latin. The silliness continues.

I still don't understand the outright hostility towards the Tridentine rite from some folks. If it's just 'silly feelgoodism' what possible harm can it do? Personally, I attend both services. We have good and holy priests in our local parish that say the mass in English and preach well. The choir is even above average. However, I truly enjoy visiting the Latin mass parish as well - perhaps once per month. Where's the harm?

[Claud]

"I prefer understanding to tradition."

I prefer understanding the tradition.

LOL..I was readying a response to kidd but how could I possibly come up with a better one than this?

[Claud]

Number 1. People DO understand the latin in the mass. Just like you learn the melody to a song..you learn what the latin parts of the mass are. Number 2. I will be getting married at this church. It is gorgeous. Fr. Pasley does a great job...and they have the most beautiful crucifix I have ever seen over the altar.

[xsmommy]

bump.

[Aedammair]

Bump, chuckle....bump, chuckle...bump!