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Nuclear devices lost in ex-Soviet republic
The Orange County Register ^ | February 1, 2002 | WILLIAM J. BROAD The New York Times

Posted on 02/01/2002 10:50:47 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach

Edited on 04/14/2004 10:04:59 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

An international team of experts has flown to the former Soviet republic of Georgia to try to recover two highly radioactive objects that were found near a mountainous region controlled by Muslim rebels, officials said Thursday.

The objects, cylinders not much larger than a can of string beans, caught the attention of three woodsmen because the snow nearby was melting. The men lugged the surprisingly heavy objects to their campsite for warmth and soon became dizzy and nauseated. A week later, they had radiation burns. All three men are now in a hospital in Tbilisi, Georgia, and one is fighting for his life.


(Excerpt) Read more at ocregister.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: islamicviolence
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1 posted on 02/01/2002 10:50:47 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: Islamic_Violence
To find all articles tagged or indexed using Islamic_Violence

Click here: Islamic_Violence

2 posted on 02/01/2002 10:51:56 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
The good news is that the place is so remote, so difficult to reach, even for us. So I believe it is not so easy to reach for terrorists.
Like Tora Bora?
3 posted on 02/01/2002 10:55:26 AM PST by Asclepius
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Lost--? More likely, sold.
4 posted on 02/01/2002 10:57:51 AM PST by Judith Anne
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
"The men lugged the surprisingly heavy objects to their campsite for warmth" quoth Earnest at the typewriter.

Ok so this stuff was steaming under the blanket of snow. What's wrong with this picture.

5 posted on 02/01/2002 10:59:03 AM PST by kinghorse
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
"So thats where I lost my nuclear batteries." What the hell, oh nuclear batteries just laying around in the woods.I find those all the time.:{
6 posted on 02/01/2002 11:00:10 AM PST by The Turbanator
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Group number change for Islamic _Violence!

This will access the more current items indexed by Islamic_Violence ! :

To find all articles tagged or indexed using Islamic_Violence

Click here: Islamic_Violence

7 posted on 02/01/2002 11:01:48 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
This is not Islamic Violence, file it under Lost and Found thread.
8 posted on 02/01/2002 11:07:08 AM PST by The Turbanator
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To: The Turbanator

If terrorists try to take the radioactive cylinders, he added, "they will probably kill themselves." After the Sept. 11 attacks, U.S. and international officials have developed new jitters about the remaining nuclear batteries and are taking aggressive steps to round them up.

"It's a bigger deal, post 9/11," said a Bush administration official. "We're trying not to do this in an alarmist way. We're taking reasonable steps to help the Georgians deal with these and other sources so they are appropriately controlled."

The fear is that the old batteries could be turned into radiation or radiological weapons, sometimes known as "dirty nukes."

I posted it on the Islamic_Violence list because this is a concern in that the Al-Queda would get access to such devices!

9 posted on 02/01/2002 11:23:20 AM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: The Turbanator
Ðàñïîðÿäèòåñü äîëæíûì îáðàçîì

This should be: "Dispose of properly." Except FR don't do Unicode, I guess.

10 posted on 02/01/2002 12:11:41 PM PST by eno_
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Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Melting snow!

Pardon my French ---- but DAMN that's a lot of radioactivity. (And I work with the stuff for a living.... radiation (outside of a nuclear bomb itself) radioactivity is extremely energetic at the nucleus level of the atom .... but almost neglible at the physical (real world)level. If these things were killing people after only a few hours exposure, and were melting snow ..... they were extremely dangerous.

So the REAL question becomes: What were they built for? How did they get "lost" from original accounting? (This would be like NASA or the CIA/NSA "losing" one of their spare telescopes for the Hubble satellite.

WHY was it laying there to be picked up in the middle of nowhere? Who left it laying there? Where did they come from?

Most important: WHAT GOT THE SOURCES THERE in the first place? (Who else died carrying them?)

12 posted on 02/01/2002 3:39:07 PM PST by Robert A Cook PE
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To: Physicist
Help!

Are "nuclear batteries" for real?

In real simple language. How would one work?

13 posted on 02/01/2002 4:00:47 PM PST by LibKill
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To: LibKill
Well, the nuclear batteries on the Cassini probe emit lots of beta particles--and betas are merely very energetic electrons. Apply wires, get current.
14 posted on 02/01/2002 4:05:55 PM PST by Poohbah
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To: Poohbah
Thanks.

I wonder why the heck anyone would dump something like this anywhere people could find it.

15 posted on 02/01/2002 4:13:04 PM PST by LibKill
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE
These could have been the guts of an RTG- radioisotope themal genarator. The US built several of these, called Snap generators. Lots of satellites and a few airplanes have them.

An isotope like Co60 puts out heat, I think it is 17 watts per gram. You put the isotope in a superinsulating blanket and use the heat to make electricity, perhaps with a peltier stack. Cobalt and Strontium were common but without lots of shielding would be pretty hot- a gram of cobalt 60 is 1,000 curies, or about 10 to the thirteenth disintegratins per second.

When less shielding was called for, the RTGs may use plutonium 238 (not the Pu239 used in fission bombs) because it is an alpha emitter and does not generate lots of gamma which is hard to shield.

A few years ago the Christic Institute got all upset because NASA was going to launch a bird with lots of Pu238 as an electrical power source, and the fear was that if it fell to earth it would, of course, kill us all. Apollo used one too, see the link.

If someone stole a cobalt or strontium or iridium RTG, and removed the isotope package from its heavy shielding, it may emit on the order of several hundered rems per hour, enough to kill in a few hours. It would be quite warm.

As a terrorist weapon, not so potent except for the fear.

A plutonium RTG like the one used on Cassini, with 11 kg of fuel, could not explode itself but if ground up? It would a great mess make.

16 posted on 02/01/2002 7:15:35 PM PST by DBrow
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To: LibKill
LibKill- see my #16 or do a google on "radioisotope thermal generator" or similar.
17 posted on 02/01/2002 7:42:12 PM PST by DBrow
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Oh no, not more Soviet republic nukes missing... We're all going to die.

Yawn!

18 posted on 02/01/2002 7:42:41 PM PST by AmericaUnited
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To: DBrow
That's why I indicated it would be like stealing the "guts" of a satellite: These aren't available at your local KMart or terrorist neighborhood arms store.

Not cheap, not easy to make, steal, or transport ..... (Which is probably why the original thief removed the shielding: made it lighter to move by horseback or carry across the mountains by backpack.)

And not usually found in a snowbank high in the mountains.

19 posted on 02/01/2002 8:12:53 PM PST by Robert A Cook PE
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To: DBrow
Also: An alpha emitter IS the best source of "usuable" heat for a SNAP-like generator. (The heat difference is the source of power to the satellite.)

But an alpha-emitter won't emit enough gamma or beta (neither of which would penetrate even a sheet of paper!) to kill the bearer within hours.

ONLY massive amounts of gamma rays could kill like that, no matter how much shielding was removed from the outside of the can-sized package.

The Soviets HAD small SNAP-like generators that powered their ocean-covering RORSAT radar satellites.....but those were much, much more powereful than a US SNAP generator. Had to be .... since they were trying to bounce radar signals of ships back from the ocean to the satellite in orbit, and then relay the signal back to Moscow.

But that much gamma?

20 posted on 02/01/2002 8:19:01 PM PST by Robert A Cook PE
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