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To: A.J.Armitage
"The general welfare, left without qualification, encompasses the entire legitimate sphere of government; so unless you can show from the text where certain subject areas are exempted (and I'm not holding my breath) your view, by logical necessity, gives every government power to the federal government, and the fact that such powers do not, in fact, belong to the federal government merely proves you wrong."

No kidding.

Where have you seen the courts ever limit government power?

If government is so limited, why are you complaining? Your own whines and cries against an overbearing government show that your logic about government power being completely restrained is demonstrably false.

Yes, there are a few limits on federal government power. Alcohol, gambling, slavery, and secession come to mind, but there just aren't that many limits.

The whole concept that our Constitution "limits" government is a bunch of hype from clueless Libertarians. Look around you. We've had soldiers' pension plans for almost 2 centuries. We've had a federal Bank since Thomas Jefferson. We've had Social Security since the 1930's, for crying out loud.

You Libertarians run around screaming that these programs aren't Constitutional as if no adult had ever reviewed them in court over the last 200 years, and that just isn't a rational position to hold.

You claim that government is limited, so you show me where. Show me where lawful courts have ruled against government programs. Show me where any respected authority has ever, in the history of our nation, passed down judgements that are in line with your radical claims.

Frankly, I don't see it. Lincoln got the draft and the income tax through because of the general welfare clause. FDR got the New Deal, Social Security, the Works Progress Authority, and the confiscation of gold through because of it. Thomas Jefferson got the first federal bank through because of it.

But oh no. A.J.Armitage says that the general welfare clause conveys no power, has no meaning on its own, and can simply be disregarded.

Well, forgive me if I don't buy that line of nonsense. Show me where government has been restrained by our courts. show me where the general welfare clause has been ruled to have had no value.

You can't do it. You can't do it because you are wrong, and not only are you wrong, but Libertarianism is wrong.

And not only is Libertarianism wrong, but Libertarianism is guilty of try to perpetuate a FRAUD in that its adherents falsely claim that the general welfare clause has no meaning.

And if you disagree, then SHOW ME where the courts have EVER backed your radical, disproven views.

You can't do it, and that's a challenge to you.

402 posted on 02/02/2002 6:35:09 PM PST by Southack
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 399 | View Replies ]


To: Southack
And not only is Libertarianism wrong, but Libertarianism is guilty of try to perpetuate a FRAUD in that its adherents
falsely claim that the general welfare clause has no meaning.
 

I'll call you and raise you.

Any use you appear to feel is justified by
your view of the general welfare clause
would only cause or already has caused
grave harm to the general welfare.

The actual reason that it has no meaning
is you believe that you can better society
by taking from some to help others.  You
claim to be against socialism but you want
The U. S. Constitution to allow some form
of misguided social endeavor.  Anyone but
a fool should be able to see that.  Your
claim is socialist.

You make me so sad that we have come
to this point.  Libertarians are the only
true patriots left in our republic, yet we
get vile slander and abuse from those
that give lip service to the same cause.
 

404 posted on 02/02/2002 9:13:39 PM PST by higgmeister
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 402 | View Replies ]

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