'Moderate' Islam in the Netherlands: The Trukish organization Milli Görüs

The Turkish organization Milli Görüs likes to portaid itself as if was very Dutch, pro-integration and especialy liberal. The truth is different however. In the Dutch MG-mosques there are extremist preaches.

Althought the links are rather covered up, every Turk in the Netherlands knows that Milli Görüs (MG) is linked to the in Turkey forbidden Refah-party. The Dutch MG-spokesman H. Karacaer emphasizes that his organization wants to encourage integration and participation of muslims in the Dutch society.

The lecture that is offered in the mosque, tells a completely different story, just like the MG-imams, discovered writer Mehmet Ülger after a visit to one of the many lectures and prayers.

21 september 2001, Friday afternoon in Yunus Emre, the Milli Görüs-mosque in The Hague. The preach is about how muslims need to circumvent with their leaders and their faith. "Believers, you must avoid to wage war against those that do not believe in the haram, the religous law of allah. Until they admit they are wrong and convert... Allah has send 124,000 prophets to earth to do his bidding. Many of them have died. The Israeli's, the Jews, killed 800 of them by themselves already."

Sevki Yilmaz, former vice-president of the European MG, lost his membership of the Turkish government with the Refah-party. He is incited for extremistic-fundamentalistic speeches and has fled Turkey. He regulary holds speeches in the Netherlands. The only solution he sees for the 'pigstable' that Europe is to muslims, is turning over the power to Milli Görüs. "For that we are marching out. The soldiers of Milli Görüs are underway."

He is a man that preaches integration and tolerance. Within his own mosque-organization there is fundementalistic and anti-semite propaganda. Just how credible is the director of Milli Görüs, Haci Karacaer?

Almost everyone who knows him, is charmed by his qualities as bridge-builder between muslims and non-muslims. But is he telling the truth about the goals of his ideological movement that he represents?

'A splendid candidate'. This was how Haci Karacaer was beeing described by Jos de Beus, chairman of the list of candidates for the PvdA (socialist party) in Amsterdam. Karacaer was 'heaven send' for the party, that was looking desperately for a suitable Turkish representative for the capital. The modern director of the North-Netherlands' (moderate) branch of the mosque-umbrella organization Milli Görüs seemed to be the perfect man for the job. Yet his name was not put on the list for the local council elections.

Within the PvdA there was a growing concern that this man was not the 'perfect candidate'. Where his tolerant opinions also shared by his supporters, or was this a onemanshow? Afraid of the possible consequences the PvdA would face when associating themselves with the as fundamentalistic known MG, Karacaer disappered from the list.

Indeed, according freelance journalist Mehmet Ülger. He thinks Karacaer is not being honest about MG. "If you hear him talk, you think: this man has got good ideas. But he never tells you what is happening in the mosque. He does not tell you what people think and say there. But that is important, not the nice sugar-coated talk of a spokesman."

According to Ülger, Karacaer is playing along with the MG-game. The people on the outside are being told just how democratic MG is, while their supporters are being told the fundamentlistic thoughts. "I ask him: "Why do you sell fundamentalistic books and cassets in your mosques?" His answer: "There are aslo other books for sale." I say to him: "You are just a PR-employee." He says: "That used to be in the past. In the past there were connections with the in Turkey forbidden Refah-party and with MG Europe, where these things were not said in public. Now MG Netherlands would be completly open and independant."

Ülger does not believe this however. MG Netherlands has, according to him, not distanced itself from that past, and neither with the ideology of their foreign affiliates.

"Everywhere in the mosque there are leaflets displayed from MG Europe, and their name is still 'Milli Görüs', or: 'the national vision' of Erbakan, the leader of the now forbidden Turkish-fundamentalistic Refah-party. How naief the outside world must be to think that MG is a movement that is encouraging the integration of Turks into the Dutch society?"

For that the people on the outside do not have to be that naief, says Erik-Jan Zürche, professor of Turkish language to the university of Leiden. MG wants, according to him, 'succesfully integrate, but with preserving the islamic identity'.

Zürcher does not believe that Karacaers' only is employed to 'keep the Dutch people naief', like Ülger is saying. But even when the MG-director is marching far in front of the troops with his preaching for integration, and for more self-critique within islam, he is telling honestly what his standpoint is.

Yassin Hartog, coordinator of the steering committee Islam and Citizenship -a national organization that wants to lead the discussion between muslims and the rest of the Netherlands in the right direction- has, as a 'critical outsider' a 'very positive impression' about Karacaer.

"I have no reason to doubt his integrity. That man deserves support, because he is doing a very difficult job. It is not easy to ensure support of the older MG-generation, they rather see nothing change."

Professor Zürcher thinks of a conflict of generations within MG. Karacear represents according to him the younger wing, that is biased more towards the Dutch society the the older Turks. According to him you must "keep an eye out for the movement that is developing, a movement with many faces".

In 1988 there already was talk about 'a new direction' within MG, according a study that theologian Nico Landman published in 1992 about the islam in the Netherlands. This new direction was, according to him, "characterized by more flexibility and sincerity, cooperation with other organizations, showing respect towards other opinions, more focussing on the needs of young people, and more approachable activities".

Landman also added "that the 'new cinserity' in the youth-section is not noticable in the speeches of religous and political leaders of the MG-movement." I a span of ten years there is little change within MG.

"There are very radical, scary people present there", says Zürcher.. "But one cannot denounce the things Karacaer is saying as 'window dressing'. There is a new generation of very educated Turks emerging from within MG. Amongst them many who think just like Kakacear. For twenty years MG is independant in the European community. It is not preventable that a number of their supporters become more like the Dutch people."

Faud Hussein is a political scientist and director of the Middle East Bureau. He doubt there is a generation-conflict within MG.

"The objetive of MG is the islamization of the Turkish community, and, in the second place, islamization of the state. But how can this be achieved? The discussion is about the means, but not about the ultimate goal. About this goal there is agreement between the genreations."

The younger generation within MG is according to him more informed about the Dutch society, but this does not mean that they are supporting a different ideology. "With their knowledge of the Netherlands they are more usable for MG.

The changing of MG into a more Dutch organization has not lessended the anti-semitism, that also thrives within the youth-movement within MG. "Anti-semitism is widespread within MG, and it is present in all generations. Often it is portraid as an anti-Israel-attitude, but the Jews are being demonized.

Hartog, of Islam en Burgerschap (Islam and Citizenship) knows the stories about the anti-semitism and fundamentalism. "But is it a MG-problem, or a Turkish, cultural problem?", he wonders. "In every mosque I go to, there are eerie books for sale. And within every religion there are creeps. Maybe Karacaer is thinking (within his heart): "That rubbish has to go from the mosque! But it is easier said than done."

Dagblad Trouw, 22 january 2002, by Mehmet Ülger. 'He who pleads for the seperation of mosque and state, who says that there is no room for the meger of religion and politics, gives the political power in the hands of the enemies of the faith.' And allahs' punishment for muslims is, that they find themselves in the pigstable called Europe. Infuriated fundamentalism? No, fragments of a speech, hold in a mosque of the moderate umbrella organization Milli Görüs.

The leader of the Refah-party, N. Erbakan, choose the name himself -'own vision of our nation'- for his movement. Yet he holds 'only a heartily alliance with Milli Görüs', he said when he was given a heroes welcome at the annual European congress in the Amsterdam Arena. He could not openly admit that MG holds links to his party. This because it is prohibited by Turkish law that political parties erect sections in foreign countries. Take for an example the speech that was given early 1997 in the Ayasofya-mosque, the biggest in Amsterdam: "Muslims must let them be guided by the quran (koran). The rights and duties of a muslim are written down in the quran. A judge has to try (ajudge) muslims according to the quran. "Kabaktepe, the predecessor of Karacaer said: "Just a normal speech. We want that the sharia is accepted by the court. The imam ment that the judge has to take in account the sharia, the islamic law.

"If it is neccesary we are willing to die for our faith, if it is neccesary we will give away our possessions and if we have to leave our country than we must do it... It is not possible not to give away anything material or inmaterial, and yet think the quran, the islam and jutistice must prevail. Thousands of prophets have given their lives to accomplish that goal. Are they smarter than us? Hasah, of course not."

"Governing is after religion the second most importand order from allah. Believers, you must let yourselves be ruled by people of your own faith and culture. You must listen to them. You must not get yourselves be ruled by people that do not share your faith. Otherwise yuo are in conflict with the quran."

In the Ayasofya-mosque there are books on the counter written in Dutch. There no are certainly no positive texts about the modern western society. For example the book 'Raising childeren in the islam'. Under the chapter 'From five years to the puberty: introduce them to allah', is written: "The scentence that brothers and sisters need to sleep seperatly, is mentioned in certain hadith, because at that age there can be sexual feelings. News from the UK and US mentioned recently about the disgusting pratice of incest between the family-members. This is not strange if you think of the total lack of morality in western families, the open and free conversation about sexuality and things like letting your whole family half-naked sunbathing and swimming at the beach."

Chapter 'Whom who spears the rod, spoils his child' states: "Muslims can learn a lot from the increasing muber of divorces, childeren that you cannot keep under control and thorn-apart families: in modern western life something that happens often. This does not mean you can jump for joy because others are doing bad, but it means we have to learn from their mistakes: take measures not to follow their example and light a candle so others can emerge from the darkness too."

After this there is a description of the case James Bulger, the Britich child of five years that was kindnapped by two ten year old boys and beaten to death. The writer examines the western justice-system: "Criminals often are set free, even though their guilt in obvious, through the crazy ways of escaping from justice, smart juristic negociations and a clearly intimidated juriy members. The law can be expanded infinite to protect criminals but is doing nothing for the victims. Even when they are convicted, the criminals often get a very mild punishment that the justice-system is just a mockery."

In the Ayasofa-mosque in Amsterdam there are also audio-tapes for sale with the preaches of Sevki Yilmza, former vice-president of IGMG. He is voted for mayor in 1994 of Riza next to the Black Sea. A year later Yilmaz became a member of the Turkish government with the Refah-party, that is -according to the European Council of human rights rightfully- forbidden. Yilmaz was incited with extreme-fundamentalistic speeches and the death-penalty is being demanded. His membership of the Turkish government is revoked. He also fled the country and is currently hiding somewhere in Europe. He regulary is a guest with MG in the Netherlands.

"If we do not return to the fundaments of allah, awful disasters await us", Yilmaz begins his speech. "Those who say that there has to be a seperation of religion and state, those who say that there is no place for the merger for religion and politics, they give either unaware or either aware the political power into the hands of the enemies of the faith. They who strive that goal can await horrible punishments."

A punishment from allah has hit 'us', says Yilmaz. "Are we not punished than? If it wasn't so, what are the muslims doing in the European pigstable?" The only solution is an islamic system where MG is in power. "The soldiers of Milli Görüs are underway. Than all wall between allah and his followers, like the socialism, the capitalism and other systems, will be destroyed. And no-one will come between this. Only the islamic system will be present between allah and his followers. For that we are marching out."

In the Ayasofya-mosque from MG in Rotterdam lies 'Defending man', a sort of biography of Erbakan, where he is describing his nostalgia for the Ottoman empire (also called Khilafah). "Milli Görüs is exactly the same faith as when Sultan Fatih conquered Istanbul. Our nation was a thousand years a MG world-superpower. Today Milli Görüs is the medicine for all illnesses.

Mehmet Ülger became know for his book 'Grey Wolves, a search for Turkish extreme-right' (1997), written together with Stella Braam. When it became known that they had worked undercover, the Grey Wolves made death-threats against them. Ülger found protection with the jornalist-union, where he now is in a leading function. Ülger is also following other Turkish political organizations, like the umbrella organization of the mosques Milli Görüs, for instance as a visitor of prayer-services and lectures.

Extreme Turkish Islamists and Nationalists.
Milli Gorus (National Vision), is an organization of Turkish immigrants in Europe, composed of members of the former Turkish Welfare Party (see Turkey) and the fascist Gray Wolves. Their aim, to shield Turkish immigrants from Westerm cultural and political influences, is expressed in their newspaper Milli Gazette, thus: "Milli Gorus is a shield protecting our fellow citizens from assimilation into barbaric Europe."

The secretary of the Dutch department of Milli Gorus, Ali Yoksel, said in Brussels: "Democracy is a Western error." A Hamburg court called Milli Gorus "a danger to the free democratic state of law." In its latest report the BVD also warned of the growing influence of this fundamentalist organization. Spokesmen for Milli Gorus have repeatedly expressed anti-Semitic opinions. In 1996 Jews were labeled "blood-sucking vampires" in the Milli Gazette, which also called Western countries "instruments of the secret Jewish worldwide conspiracy."

Milli Gorus members and supporters met on 20 June 1998 in the Amsterdam stadium. No anti-Semitic incidents occurred; however the CIDI (Center for Information and Documentation on Israel) criticized the stadium authorities for allowing the demonstration on the grounds that a mass meeting of 40,000 strengthened the infra-structure of this fanatical alignment.

Also of interest: Why the Osama video is real: the Holland connection (Dutch Jihad Walkers MUST READ)
Group-rape of girl cover up attempt uncovered in Holland
Suspects in Rotterdam had videotapes Bin Laden (Holland)

the disgusting pratice of incest between the family-members

Now this is very interesting, because just last week there was a documantary about the fact that amongst the childeren of immigrants (in Holland almost all of them are muslim) there was twice the chance for them to die before their fifth year. This was mainly due to the woman that marry cousins from their fathers side (75% of them marry people from their own country, many of them marry people from their fathers old vilage).

The law can be expanded infinite to protect criminals but is doing nothing for the victims

More on islamic justice:

Woman scentenced to be stoned in Nigeria

And from the quran and hadith some notes on 'islam justice':

"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers (become Muslims) and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful." (Koran 9:5)

"Prophet (Muhammad) said: 'Do not stone the adulteress who is pregnant until she has had her child.' After the birth she was put into a ditch up to her chest and the Prophet commanded them to stone her. Khalid came forward with a stone which he threw at her head, and there spurted blood on the face of Khalid and he cursed her. The gentle Prophet prayed over her and she was buried." (Hadith No. Muslim 682)

"Omar reported from the Holy Prophet who said, 'No man shall be questioned for beating his wife.'" (Al Hadis, Vol. 1, p. 215)

Women are inferior to men
"...and women shall have rights similar to the rights against them...but men have a degree over them..." Surah 2:228

Women are less than equal to men in at least two major areas
First, in inheritance: a woman's share is half that of a man. "To the male a portion equal to that of two females..." Surah 4:11
Second, in court witness: the witness of two women equals the witness of one man. "...and if there are not two men, then a man and two women such as you choose, for witness..." Surah 2:282

Women's mind is deficient
Mohammed said, "The witness of a woman is equal to half of that of a man because of the deficiency of the woman's mind" Hadith vol. 3:826

A husband may punish his wife by beating her or abstaining from sexual relations with her
"women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them. Surah 4:34

A wife is a sex object
"Your wives are as a tilth ( a field to be ploughed ) unto you, so approach your tilth when or how ye will." Surah 2:223

Islam does not teach the equality of all people
"Ye (Muslims) are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind..." Surah 3:110

Any person who accepts Islam, then later turns away from it will be subject to death:
Mohammed said, "Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him." Hadith vol. 9:57

A Muslim may not be killed if he kills an infidel
Mohammed said: "No Muslim should be killed for killing a Kafir (infidel). " Hadith vol. 9:50

Ethnic cleansing is practiced
Mohammed said to the Jews "The earth belongs to Allah and His apostle, and I want to expel you from this land (the Arabian Peninsula), so, if anyone owns property, he is permitted to sell it." Hadith vol. 4:392

"Bani An-Nadir and Bani Quraiza fought, so the Prophet (Muhammad) exiled Bani An-Nadir and allowed Bani Quraiza to remain at their places. He then killed their men and distributed their women, children and property among the Muslims, but some of them came to the Prophet and he granted them safety, and they embraced Islam. He exiled all the Jews from Medina. They were the Jews of Bani Qainuqa', the tribe of 'Abdullah bin Salam and the Jews of Bani Haritha and all the other Jews of Medina." (Hadith, Sahih Bukhari 5:59:362)

Why Saudia Arabia does not allow churches to be erected on its soil:
Mohammed's last words were: "Turn the pagans (non-Muslims) out of the Arabian Peninsula." Hadith vol. 5:716

No Separation of Church and State
"We have sent down to thee the Book (Quran) in truth, that thou mightest judge between men, as guided by God." Surah 4:105

According to Islam:

Stealing is punishable by the amputation of the hands (Surah 5:41)
Adultery is punishable by public flogging (Surah 24:2)
Drinking is punishable by 40-80 lashes (Hadith 8:770)
Resisting Islam, punishable by death, crucifixion or the cutting off of the hands and feet (Surah 5:36)

These rules will be imposed also on non-Muslims in an Islamic State
"If any one desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted of him." Surah 3:85

No opposition party is allowed in an Islamic State
"O ye who believe obey God and the apostle and those charged with authority among you. If you differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to God and His apostle." Surah 4:59

If you don't abide by these laws, you are considered:
An unbeliever (Surah 5:47)
A wrong-doer (Surah 5:48)
A rebel (Surah 5:50)

"Prophet said: 'When the slave runs away from his master, his prayer is not accepted; he is an infidel.'" (Hadith No. Muslim 32)

And what to do with them:
"I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips of them.It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah." Surah 8:13-17 (See also Surah 8:60 & 9:14)

Mohammed said, "I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, none has the right to be worshipped but Allah." Hadith vol. 4:196

Mohammed also said, "Know that paradise is under the shades of the swords." Hadith vol 4:73

"Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book (Christians and Jews), until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection." (Koran 9:29)

"The Prophet said, 'The person who participates in (Holy battles) in Allah's cause and nothing compels him to do so except belief in Allah and His Apostles, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty (if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise (if he is killed in the battle as a martyr). Had I not found it difficult for my followers, then I would not remain behind any sariya going for Jihad and I would have loved to be martyred in Allah's cause and then made alive, and then martyred and then made alive, and then again martyred in His cause.'" (Hadith, Sahih Bukhari 1:2:35)

"Narrated Anas: 'Some people from the tribe of 'Ukl came to the Prophet and embraced Islam. The climate of Medina did not suit them, so the Prophet ordered them to go to the camels of charity and to drink, their milk and urine. They did so, and after they had recovered from their ailment (became healthy) they turned renegades (reverted from Islam) and killed the shepherd of the camels and took the camels away. The Prophet sent (some people) in their pursuit and so they were (caught and) brought, and the Prophet ordered that their hands and legs should be cut off and that their eyes should be branded with heated pieces of iron, and that their cut hands and legs should not be cauterized, till they die.'" (Hadith, Sahih Bukhari 8:82:794)

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