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To: azhenfud; CC Woody
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.
--St. John 1:12

Since this is what the Apostle John tells us, what are we to make of it? Only those who receive (believe) in Christ does God the Father enable or empower to become His sons. This is very specific.

Let's reverse it to see what it says by what it does not say. If one does not believe, he hasn't the power to become a son of God. The translation holds up either way, positively or negatively.

Let's go further. Who believes or will believe in Christ? Since the dead cannot believe (for they are dead), nor have the dead any faculties for reason (for they are dead), only those whom the Holy Spirit quickens (or makes alive) can faithfully believe. And who are those whom the Holy Spirit quickens? God's elect, or, those for whom Christ died for.

Hell has a lot to do with this issue for if Christ truly did die for every man, there would be no need for hell. We know that all those who God has given to Christ will come to Him, and he that comes will in no wise be cast out (St. John 6:37). Now, again, who are they that the Father has given to Christ? Is it every man? Of course not. Since God the Father has not given every man to Christ, those not given are hellbound. Ergo, I bring hell to this subject.

God's word achieves that which it was sent to do. It does not come back to Him void (Isaiah 55:11). God's Word was sent to save only those in which God so chose to give to His Son.

Lastly, if I have a doctrine, it's Genesis through Malachi, St. Matthew through The Revelation. Definitely nothing more, and most certainly nothing less.

359 posted on 01/21/2002 11:03:03 AM PST by rdb3
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To: rdb3
You failed to include "....even to them that believe on his name."
So, I take it that, by your reasoning, there is no more need for anyone to petition our God for mercy because those who would are just out of luck, right? That's deception straight from Satan, my friend. Satan would love for that Balloon Stuffing to be spread around because he uses every ploy to deceive the weak into thinking that God has restricted power to save those who are lost - which is a LIE. That thinking is indicative of the ideals when the early church clergy made it a "sin" for the average man to learn to read the scriptures and learn of God himself because the clergy wanted to preserve their pious status in society. Please refer to Psalm 139 and see just how far God reaches for His lost child, get educated in how God APPLIES mercy by Christ's example, then we can talk more seriously. Respectfully I submit to you, you may conveniently twist the scripture to fit that doctrine of exclusion, but there are many who see through the holes in that thought and many more who are obtaining that power to be called His sons through Christ. Please don't discount the fact that God's will is Him wanting "all" to be saved - and that "none" should perish - but by CHOICE, they remain lost.
One last thought using your logic; if God "predestined" one to eternity in hell, how can that soul be determined by the rightous judge as being disobedient, since that was his lot to begin with and was indeed obedient to his "preordained" calling?...
362 posted on 01/21/2002 12:55:22 PM PST by azhenfud
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