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To: rdb3
You failed to include "....even to them that believe on his name."
So, I take it that, by your reasoning, there is no more need for anyone to petition our God for mercy because those who would are just out of luck, right? That's deception straight from Satan, my friend. Satan would love for that Balloon Stuffing to be spread around because he uses every ploy to deceive the weak into thinking that God has restricted power to save those who are lost - which is a LIE. That thinking is indicative of the ideals when the early church clergy made it a "sin" for the average man to learn to read the scriptures and learn of God himself because the clergy wanted to preserve their pious status in society. Please refer to Psalm 139 and see just how far God reaches for His lost child, get educated in how God APPLIES mercy by Christ's example, then we can talk more seriously. Respectfully I submit to you, you may conveniently twist the scripture to fit that doctrine of exclusion, but there are many who see through the holes in that thought and many more who are obtaining that power to be called His sons through Christ. Please don't discount the fact that God's will is Him wanting "all" to be saved - and that "none" should perish - but by CHOICE, they remain lost.
One last thought using your logic; if God "predestined" one to eternity in hell, how can that soul be determined by the rightous judge as being disobedient, since that was his lot to begin with and was indeed obedient to his "preordained" calling?...
362 posted on 01/21/2002 12:55:22 PM PST by azhenfud
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To: azhenfud; CCWoody
You failed to include "....even to them that believe on his name."

Excuse me, but do you care to go back and reread the very first line of my post #359?

So, I take it that, by your reasoning, there is no more need for anyone to petition our God for mercy because those who would are just out of luck, right? That's deception straight from Satan, my friend.

No, that's the way you interpreted what I said.

Satan would love for that Balloon Stuffing to be spread around because he uses every ploy to deceive the weak into thinking that God has restricted power to save those who are lost - which is a LIE.

Not at all. The Bible tells us in Hebrews 7:22-28 that, "By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore."

Amen. The arm of the Lord is not short in that it cannot save (Isaiah 59:1). His hand is a mighty hand.

One last thought using your logic; if God "predestined" one to eternity in hell, how can that soul be determined by the rightous judge as being disobedient, since that was his lot to begin with and was indeed obedient to his "preordained" calling?...

God didn't predestine anyone to hell. Our common earthly father Adam did that for us. Ever heard of Original Sin? There is not one person born who deserves the Kingdom of Heaven. Not even a newborn infant, for as the Psalmist wrote, "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me." (Psalms 51:5). This is not about the predestination of the condemned, but the predesination of the saved. Does your Bible contain these words from Romans 8:28-31 that says, "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?"

What did the Apostle Paul mean by "to them who are called according to his purpose?" What did the Apostle mean by "For whom he did foreknow he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son?"

The word "foreknow" in the Greek is progniosko, which means, exactly "to know beforehand" (Strong's *4267). The word "predestinate" in the Greek is proorizo which means "to limit in advance" or "determine before, ordain." (Strong's *4309).

So, tell me, what did the Apostle mean by these things?

CC, am I leaving anything out here?

377 posted on 01/21/2002 2:54:48 PM PST by rdb3
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