Posted on 01/20/2002 5:02:48 PM PST by CCWoody
Then how do you have a church that denies a personal relationship with Jesus, to be His church?
Jesus Himself said, that there is no marriage in heaven, yet your doctrine says that a perfect marriage is the only way that you can get into heaven, unless I guess for the secret password that you are given in a temple rite? Where in the Scriptures did God ever mention a secret password? This is Greek Gnosticism, pure and simple.
You are saved through works, you believe, and dismiss the doctrine of Grace as unimportant. You don't even believe in the NT, do you, believing what you have been taught, not to read it, or any other writings that you have been told are anti-Mormon. You think God has a human body because Smith claimed to meet Him face to face. The prophet Isaiah said no man can look on God and live, and thus your prophet is biblically proved a charlatran. The Hebrew word for face, does not mean literal face, and if you were allowed to study Hebrew, you would know that.
You rely on emotion, not the Word of God, or the knowledge of Jesus Christ, for whatever it is you call faith. You deny that the Holy Spirit dwells within, contradicting the very words of Christ Himself.
You do not know hermeneutics, nor are you allowed too. Your leaders pick and choose the verses for you to believe in, and they tell you what to believe.
Your church leaders have rewritten your church history and hide the truth from you. Just try researching it and asking about it. They will show you the door, won't they?
There is no archaeological evidence for your fantastic claims about the civilizations in the Americas. None, nada, yet there are for many of those in the OT and NT.
When scholars did obtain and translate the Egyptian papyrus that Smith claimed to have translated, it was found to be a common burial text, easily brought back at that time from travelers to Egypt. He is a proven liar. His closest associates called him a liar and were promptly excommunicated too, weren't they?
As for the ridiculous claim that he is the Joseph of the bible, what can even be said? Bad hermeneutics, and if you think "smith" mentioned once in the OT, is a prophecy about him, that's just as ridiculous. Then bear in mind that Tubal Cain was the progenitor of smiths, so maybe he is yours after all.
Most distressing, WM is that you are empty and unfulfilled and an unsaved soul,without a personal saving relationship with the Lord Jesus. You know that hunger and that emptiness that all the religious works and busyness cannot fill.Your coming over here is no accident. Think about it. Accept Christ into your heart and ask Him to show you the truth today. In Christ, TTC
Do Latter-Day Saints belong to a cult?
You will notice that he goes into pagan Greek philosophy as well, because the principal reason people give me for attacking my faith as a cult is that I don't believe the "right" thing about the Trinity, the Godhead. I have been pointing out how the supposedly "right" thing comes from 4th-century theologians who were heavily influenced by pagan Greek philosophy.
Jeff writes:
the creeds from the Council of Nicaea and the related Council of Chalcedon were theological, philosophical statements developed in the fourth century A.D. amid intense debate about the nature of God. Influenced heavily by Greek philosophy (Neo-Platonism), these creeds teach the concept of an abstract, transcendent, "consubstantial" unity in trinity, one in three, coequal, existing incomprehensibly without body, parts, or passions, wholly other and outside space and time as we know it.I am pointing out that it is improper for people to condemn another's Christian faith because they go with the apostles rather than with the philosopher-theologians.
Your post is so full of errors, false accusations, misattributions, and misinterpretations, that I can hardly find a true statement to work with.
If you so choose, you will continue to rave on, but I will say in advance: You are sadly and grossly misinformed. You are not telling the truth about my faith, or my motives, or hardly anything.
As I pointed out yesterday (#1772), I no longer have any basis to hope to have a rational discussion with you.
Debate's over, your side loses.
1. Is the group founded by the Rev. Sun Myung Moon (Moonies) a cult? If so, what makes them so?
3. What are the names of great new world cities from the Book of Mormon and their locations?
Seems simple enough. I just stop there. See you some other debate in the future.
Your post is so full of errors, false accusations, misattributions, and misinterpretations, that I can hardly find a true statement to work with.
If you so choose, you will continue to rave on, but I will say in advance: You are sadly and grossly misinformed. You are not telling the truth about my faith, or my motives, or hardly anything.
As I pointed out yesterday (#1772), I no longer have any basis to hope to have a rational discussion with you.
In other words he does not have an answer..That is where all the Christians have gone.
Jesus gave His message and them said "Let him that has ears hear" and He moved on..Shake the dust from your shoes brother..you have NO common ground with WM ..He denies the book you rely on .
Instead, Smith first claimed that a white salamander appeared to him in a fire, and told him where the gold plates were (it was believed then that they lived in fires and were spirits) -- so did Cellini --but the church changed it into an angel to be more respectable. He also claimed to have the original Ummin and Thummin, but these are "peep" stones, used to find treasure again. I guess they are like the magic 8 ball thing. We know what the Lord Himself has to say about necromancers who use peeping spirits.
WM needs our prayers and our understanding. Let's resolve to pray for him.
... and yet you repeat your two questions. I call your bluff. I thought you might characterize this as a debate. As I said, I was not invited to a debate, I did not agree to debate, no question was ever agreed to, and my testimony of the truth of the Book of Mormon stands:
The Book of Mormon is a sacred record written by prophets of God in the ancient Americas as the Bible was in the Middle East, preserved by the Lord until the time it should come forth, and translated into English by the gift and power of God. It is the Word of God. It documents, among other things, the visit of the resurrected Jesus Christ to some of His "other sheep" and the things He taught them.
It stands as a witness that God is able to break off branches from the tree of Israel and plant them whithersoever He will in various parts of His vineyard. He is able to speak through prophets to scattered Israel, command them to write, and bring those records forth when He will.
This stuff isn't true, l$mp. You would do well to stay with the truth. You have no real basis to believe any of this nonsense. It is just attack webpage stuff.
Your side loses.
See 1784 above.
The Lord would return in 1891. Nope.
Pattens mission to be undertaken in 1848. He died 1838. Nope
US government to be overthrown and only a greasespot left, in a few years from 1836.. Nope, still here.
Congress to be broken up in a few years also from 1836 or so. Nope, still here.
Treasure to be found for the church in Salem, MA. None found as of yet anyway.
Hailstones great pestilence, etc to fall out of the sky and kill all the wicked in afew years from 1836 or so. Nope.
Temple to be built in Zion Missouri in Smith's generations lifetime. Nope, never happened.
And sad really to say, Smith died shortly thereafter. Serious stuff indeed.
Agreed.
>> Your side ...
wins!
(Since you insist that this must be a win/lose thing.)
See the last half of my #1788.
Do your homework, guy. Make your case. State your sources, quote from them with enough context so we know what is going on, bear in mind that the Lord has more time than people often give Him to fulfill all His words, and make sure that in each case you have a prophecy (not an assignment or a calling, for example) where the "prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD". Then look at them and see what you want to repost.
Please remember also, that there are not only consequences for false prophets, there are consequences for those who bash those they disagree with, who belittle that which is sacred, who wantonly and aggressively run down other people's faith, who bear false witness, who try to scare people away from the truth, etc.
Bump!
As I said, I just love the smell of bloody beheadings in the morning, don't you?
Whatever happens, remember, Woody, Revelation 14:5. And it is Jesus Christ talking, He's talking about you. Love in Christ, TTC
The Bible is a mirror. 12 disciples sat down with Him at meat. Which one are you, presently?
That's right. It wasn't true.
Your #1798: As I said, I just love the smell of bloody beheadings in the morning, don't you?
Did you think I might perhaps be referring to FR consequences? Well, they may act on their own. Maybe if I am pushed hard enough I may request some assistance, but I must confess I was thinking more of eternal consequences, like those for false prophets.
Do you really think Revelation 14:5 applies to Woody? The way he posts to non-Calvinists?
Revelation 14:5
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
May we all so follow our Lord and Savior's example that the same may truly be said of us.
It is intriguing to me though that you view every attempt to teach you insight from scripture as an assault on Mormonism. I don't care that you're a Mormon. I have good friends who are and I've learned a thing or two from them. I would however like to see you really experience a union with Christ. See what a true marriage is and the love that you can have for Him. I'm sure that He loves you or I would never have given you the time of day.
Do whatever you want to getting me banned or any of the rest of us, but you are the one who needs to worry about killing the prophets. FR has been only too happy to bloody its hands with it and their judgment is coming.
Yes, Woody is someone special, and if you knew the Lord, you would know that. The Lord can give you that deep and lasting Peace that eludes you. Just ask Him. He will in no wise turn you away, but you know that.
Go to Him and ask Him for it.
love, in Christ, your friend TTC
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.