Posted on 01/20/2002 5:02:48 PM PST by CCWoody
Just a guess on my part: are you Roman Catholic?
Exactly my point. Your point (as I understand it), is that God, through His omniscience, created that hate by playing the environment around each person. In essence, the person was forced to hate God through the manipulations of God. IF God manipulates us to hate Him, why condemn us? --we're doing exactly as He desires.
Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved."
Looks like the verb form there is present tense. I see no mention of OT persons in that verse.
What gives?
Acts 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they
Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
No Shadow..our intellect is not what saves us..it has nothing to do with our Salvation. In fact Jesus said just the opposite
Matthew 18
1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
It is the Grace of God that opens our eyes so that we can see and understand Shadow..otherwise only the Noble prize winners would be saved.
It is all God's unmerited favor..Grace..
Ya' see, you don't understand my point or my position or even the Bible. All men everywhere used their free will to Hate God. God, for His glory, has chosen to redeem some of us out of our God hating mess.
Romans 1:17-21 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith; as it is written: "The just shall live by faith." For the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness, because that which may be known of God is manifest in them, for God hath shown it unto them. For from the creation of the world the invisible things of Him are clearly seen, being understood through the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse. For when they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God, nor were thankful, but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.Oh, the reason I asked if you are RC is that you sure sound like one.
Yes it does. Sorry, Shadow I'm not picking on you. I noticed several posts by different people on this thread that they didn't know or were not sure what would happen to people who have not heard the Gospel. I believe scripture answers this is several places. Romans 15:21 is one example:
Rather, as it is written: "Those who were not told about him will see, and those who have not heard will understand."
Peace,
JWinNC
Why do some refuse and some come Shadow? What is the difference ..I will ask you a question that I never seem to get an answer to . Are you smarter,more educated ,holier,more worthy than those that do not come? What makes you different?.
Each person must make the choice to accept it or not. Some don't.
Why did you make that choice?
Just the way the Bible says:
1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God...The verb tense is very specific. Whoever believes [present tense] has been [past tense] born of God.
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, "Verily, verily I say unto thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God."Unless a man is born of God, he cannot see the Kingdom of God. It is plainly written right in front of your face.
1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.The natural man cannot even know the things of God until he has a spirit to discern them.
Really..so grace is an intellectual experience? I thought it was a heart one..Matthew 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
So did God predestine the dull and retarted to hell by limiting their intellect?
Even Samuel? Some also used their free will to love God. You still haven't addressed the paradox that if God saves only those he wishes through "providing the grace required" for that person (thus manipulating him), then why manipulate men into hating Him?
For from the creation of the world the invisible things of Him are clearly seen, being understood through the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.
Hey--you found a verse that talks about the New Guinea natives! That is how they will be judged--not whether they know the human NAME of Christ, but that He exists, and worship Him accordingly.
Oh, the reason I asked if you are RC is that you sure sound like one.
Well, Christians in general have more in common than they have differences.
The verb tense is very specific. Whoever believes [present tense] has been [past tense] born of God.
Try again. Read the verse you are quoting, please.
Notice that my answer was PARTIALLY. Not totally.
I believe that was speaking of the gentiles that did not know the God of Abraham..and that He would take the gospel to them
It fulfills the prophecy
Isaiah 52 15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.
It speaks to the knowlege of Christ spreading throughout the world
please give me a total answer then
Scripture tells that all have heard since creation.
JWinNC
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