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To: traditionalist
So if I understand you correctly, 6/10 is disgraceful (even coming, as it did from a rough off hand guess) when compared to 7.5/10? It is a decline and that is bad, but where do you draw this line of disgrace?

>>>They were supposed to get a bishop. They haven't yet.

I didn't know they were supposed to get a Bishop. Who promised them that?

>>>>> The Vatican has also been intervening in their internal affairs and undermining the authority of their superior in ways that if done to another order would produce outrage.

Do you realize the liberals are whining about the exact same thing? The Vatican is exercising more and more control over a variety of groups. Its a response to the problems we have had.

>>>>>On the other hand, FSSP priets are not forced to celebrate the Novus Ordo, and they are free to refuse to give communion in the hand.

There is so often so much misinformation over this.

Dominus Vobiscum,

patent

171 posted on 01/20/2002 7:53:25 PM PST by patent
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To: patent
So if I understand you correctly, 6/10 is disgraceful (even coming, as it did from a rough off hand guess) when compared to 7.5/10? It is a decline and that is bad, but where do you draw this line of disgrace?

Okay, perhaps "disgrace" is a bit strong, but my point still stands. What's considered, and objectively qualifies as, a good mass attendence rate today would have been considered poor before Vatican 2.

You cannot avoid the facts: two key measures of the health of the Church, vocations mass attendence, declined drastically after Varican 2. Other measures, such as separations, annulment requests, baptisms, and conversions also took a nose dive. Now that doesn't necessarily mean they were all caused by Vatican 2 and the fabrication of a new rite of mass, as Cardinal Raztinger puts it, but it sure looks suspicious if you ask me.

174 posted on 01/20/2002 9:56:49 PM PST by traditionalist
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To: patent
Do you realize the liberals are whining about the exact same thing? The Vatican is exercising more and more control over a variety of groups. Its a response to the problems we have had.

No liberal order received the same treatment as the FSSP, especially considering the things some liberal orders have done. I suggest you read up on it.

And BTW, if you think the Vatican is cracking down on modernist heretics, you are deluding yourself. Why is Richard McBrien rountinly allowed to publish heresy in diocesan newspapers around the country? Why is nothing done about American Bishops such as Weekland and Mahony flagrently violating liturgical rules and rubrics and promoting heresy at in their seminaries and convents? You can count the number of modernists cracked down upon by the Vatican since the 1960's, but those left unmolested number in the hundreds.

175 posted on 01/20/2002 10:02:39 PM PST by traditionalist
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