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Loral fined $14m over China missiles claim{Treason is cheap these days…}
ft.com ^ | By Edward Alden and Peter Spiegel

Posted on 01/11/2002 2:08:31 PM PST by expose

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To: goldilucky
"I'd really like to know what his answer in reference to treason."

Good luck. Luis doesn't give the reader any answers what-so-ever to worthy questions.

361 posted on 01/20/2002 8:53:51 PM PST by ChaseR
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To: goldilucky
"And yes, that does means Bush Jr., Bill and Hillary!"

Exactly right!

362 posted on 01/20/2002 8:55:00 PM PST by ChaseR
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To: BeAChooser
Why do you derail every thread, and spam it with Ron Brown crap?
363 posted on 01/20/2002 9:01:33 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: goldilucky
I'll tell you what. IF Chase agrees to appear on the show this Thursday, I will answer your question.
364 posted on 01/20/2002 9:04:42 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Why do you derail every thread, and spam it with Ron Brown crap?

DEFLECTION.

Everything I've posted relates to the topic at hand. Brown was the Secretary of Commerce ... the agency that had to approve the transfer of all that previously restricted techonology given to the Chinese communists by Loral . Brown threatened to expose what was going on ... so they murdered him to keep him silent. There is SWORN TESTIMONY to that effect, you know.

Why are you RUNNING Luis, if you are the conservative you CLAIM to be? Why do you keep trying to "move-on" in the face of such serious crimes as treason, murder, mass murder and election tampering BY DEMOCRATS? Why can't you answer a single ONE of the questions I asked in my last post. Do you have a problem with FACTS Luis? Facts that might seriously damage the democRAT party and liberalism? Is that what you are protecting?

365 posted on 01/20/2002 9:17:47 PM PST by BeAChooser
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To: goldilucky
Prove that.
366 posted on 01/20/2002 9:52:11 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: BeAChooser; ChaseR; goldilucky; Native American Female Vet
Could we continue the discussion here?
367 posted on 01/20/2002 9:53:44 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: goldilucky
Good Lord!

On top of being an amateur Lawyer, you are now an amateur detective as well as an amateur forensic examiner?

Sort of like Quincy and Perry Mason rolled into one?

368 posted on 01/20/2002 9:56:40 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Luis Gonzalez; William Wallace
Could we continue the discussion here?

Why?

So readers don't get to see the dishonesty you tried to pull in this thread when you re-posted William Wallace's post to me from another thread? ...you know, the one with the lies that I had pointed out on that other thread but that you chose not to mention ... to ignore?

So readers don't see the number of times you have avoided answering simple questions ... the number of times you've RUN from the facts in the Brown case and other instances of Clinton/DNC criminal activity?

So readers don't see you acting like a democRAT, spreading democRAT DISINFORMATION in order to protect what else but CRIMINAL democRATS?

Still RUNNING I see.

369 posted on 01/20/2002 11:09:54 PM PST by BeAChooser
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To: William Wallace
My gosh......I think you've finally hit upon an apt analogy!!!!

My, how times change, eh?

370 posted on 01/21/2002 6:16:56 AM PST by Howlin
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To: Luis Gonzalez
I liked watching Perry Mason but preferred "Colombo". "On top of being an amateur Lawyer, you are now an amateur detective as well as an amateur forensic examiner?"

Well yeah, if you wanna call it that way. Five years of experience in Constitution and Business Law re legal research reviewing case law and two and a half years year of writing briefs all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court by myself. I am also familar with the tax codes and have been doing my tax returns since I was sixteen. Upon finding out that such returns are on a "voluntary" basis I've stopped "volunteering".

371 posted on 01/21/2002 7:36:00 PM PST by goldilucky
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To: Luis Gonzalez
"Sort of like Quincy and Perry Mason rolled into one?"

Yeah sorta like that.

372 posted on 01/21/2002 7:38:29 PM PST by goldilucky
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To: ChaseR
I've noticed that myself.
373 posted on 01/21/2002 7:46:21 PM PST by goldilucky
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Who is hosting the show?
374 posted on 01/21/2002 7:47:22 PM PST by goldilucky
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To: goldilucky
OK, Perry, tell me your definition of treason.

Let me have a good laugh at your legal prowess.

375 posted on 01/22/2002 6:01:32 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: goldilucky
Ok, let me back up, I've been so caught up on this whole thing that I'm being rude to everyone around me.

Please define the crime of treason for me.

376 posted on 01/22/2002 7:15:17 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Luis Gonzalez, ChaseR, BeAChooser
Here's the law re treason: Art 2 Sec. 4 of the U.S. Constitution.

Treason means to breach one's government despite the oath they swore to uphold to protect the government and the nation, by levying war against the government by such means as aiding, abetting, or comforting the enemy.

Who is the enemy? China, Russia, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Cuba.

377 posted on 01/22/2002 7:06:51 PM PST by goldilucky
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To: Luis Gonzalez
see my post #377. Who's laughing now?
378 posted on 01/22/2002 7:12:08 PM PST by goldilucky
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To: expose
Loral fined $14m over China missiles claim

How many hundred million did they get from the Chinese (minus Klinton's cut of course)? Hell of a deal. Klinton promised that they would catch some negative publicity but would wind up keeping 97% of the money. He was right. The defense industry doesn't care about negative publicity about its contractors.

The $14 million is just a cost of doing business, and a damn low one at that.

379 posted on 01/22/2002 7:20:40 PM PST by Excuse_My_Bellicosity
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To: goldilucky
I am surprised that a constitutional student of your magnitude would get something this simple wrong.

This is what Article 2, section 4 says:

"The President, Vice President and all Civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."

How in the world did you get "Treason means to breach one's government despite the oath they swore to uphold to protect the government and the nation, by levying war against the government by such means as aiding, abetting, or comforting the enemy." from Article 2, Section 4?

Your client is in deep doo-doo!

Here's what treason means:

Article 3, Section 3, US Constitution:

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

"The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted."

Only

...the Framers wrote only, they meant only.

That means that treason can ONLY be two things:

1) Leviying war against the US--Chief Justice John Marshall said this on his thoughts on the trials of Aaron Burr and his associates: "However flagitious may be the crime of conspiring to subvert by force the government of our country, such conspiracy is not treason. To conspire to levy war, and actually to levy war, are distinct offences. The first must be brought into open action by the assemblage of men for a purpose treasonable in itself, or the fact of levying war cannot have been committed. So far has this principle been carried, that . . . it has been determined that the actual enlistment of men to serve against the government does not amount to levying of war."

Best as I know, Clinton does not fall under tha levying war part.

That leaves the next sentence: "...or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort." The problem with that half of the argument, is that at the moment in time that Clinton did whatever he may, or may have not done, China was not an enemy of the US, you and I might think so, but we are not at war, they are trading partners, and we maintain embassies in each other's countries.

Last, but not least, the Framers took great pains to tell us exactly HOW we could determine treason; "...No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

"...overt act...", did Bill Clinton, in full view, and within ear shot of two witnesses, say to Schwartz "go and sell secret technology that will harm the nation to the Chinese", can you, or anyone, produce those two witnesses?

Or do you expect Slick Willie to break down and confess in open Court?

Now, you either believe that we should adhere, protect, and defend the US Constitution or not.

In some cases, you have to defend it, even if the bad guys benefit from your actions.

That's the difficult part about being a conservative, you have to live by what you preach.

380 posted on 01/22/2002 8:07:54 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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