Doughnut shop bans children to allow customers to smoke

The Globe and Mail ^ | January 5, 2001 | Krista Foss

[Timesink]

Doughnut shop bans children to allow customers to smoke

Winnipeg bylaw prohibits use of tobacco in public locations frequented by minors


By KRISTA FOSS


Saturday, January 5, 2002 – Print Edition, Page A4

WINNIPEG -- When she was refused service at a Winnipeg doughnut shop yesterday, Karen Jonasson's eyes widened then rolled upward.

"I don't believe this," the flustered woman said aloud before turning on her heel and making a quick exit.

Beside her were the two reasons Ms. Jonasson couldn't get coffee and a cruller to go -- her children, 7 and 8.

The busy mother had inadvertently waltzed into one of six Coffee Time locations in the city that have put puffing customers ahead of pint-sized ones in an effort to get around a new bylaw meant to ban smoking in places minors frequent.

The half-dozen doughnut shops and a handful of other restaurants and delicatessens in the city have chosen to ban children under the age of 18.

As a result, the location where Ms. Jonasson stopped yesterday had laid off three employees who are minors, according to the manager, Susan, who withheld her last name. One former employee will return in March when she turns 18.

Besides raising eyebrows, the clash over the antismoking bylaw that became effective Jan. 1 has raised concerns about infringement of human rights.

"The irony is that the bylaw was meant to protect children, not harm them. The way it is being applied has the exact opposite result," said David Matas, a Winnipeg immigration lawyer who works on human-rights issues. "Children are a vulnerable minority. But you can't discriminate against them simply because you want to make money."

Yet this is the crux of Winnipeg's great doughnut divide -- whether catering to smokers is better for business.

According to Susan, it is -- although under provincial guidelines half of her store has to be set aside for non-smoking adults.

"We tried to obey the bylaw for one day and we lost half our business," she said. "But now that we've allowed smoking and banned minors, our business has doubled today. We're getting calls from across the city."

Vern Ducharme, who helps manage four Winnipeg Tim Hortons stores -- all of which have been smoke-free for three years -- chuckled.

"It's absurd . . . kids live for doughnuts," said Mr. Ducharme, a smoker who doesn't indulge during work hours. "Our business hasn't been hurt by going smoke-free at all."

City councillor Mark Lubosch, who chairs the committee that pushed for a ban on smoking indoors, called the businesses choosing to ban children "laggards."

"Those businesses that are putting smokers ahead of youth are shortsighted and grossly irresponsible," he said. "They are putting profits ahead of employees and customers. This issue has always been about health."

For Ms. Jonasson, the idea that a place dedicated to jelly-filled confections would allow parents with children to use only the drive-through window is insulting.

"I will never come back here," she said outside the store. "There are plenty of places in this town where I can buy coffee with my kids -- and they're smoke-free, too."

But inside the Coffee Time, smokers puffed away, unrestrained and happy. "Viva la Coffee Time," one puffer shouted.

[Senator Pardek]

I'm picturing soccer moms huddled outside of donut shops and restaurants with their kids in cold, blowing rain.

Cosmic Justice.

[muggs]

I just want to know what it is with Canadians and donuts? It's like there are at least 2 or 3 donut shops on every block.

[dennisw]

I don't smoke but this is really great! Let the looneylibs pick up the pieces from their idiot laws.

[unamused]

Yeah,
Next thing you know, businesses will start discriminating against people who can't afford the product. What a screwed up world it'll be then...
;-)

[BJungNan]

"The irony is that the bylaw was meant to protect children, not harm them. The way it is being applied has the exact opposite result," said David Matas, a Winnipeg immigration lawyer who works on human-rights issues. "Children are a vulnerable minority. But you can't discriminate against them simply because you want to make money."

Something tells me this lawyer does not see the true irony here. I guess a lawyer can make a case for anything these days.

Lawyers really are the scourge of society, driving up the cost of everything, and in this case making the absurd claim that a child has a right to force everyone else to refrain from smoking.

The women had it exactly right when she huffed that there were plenty of other places to get a cup of coffee and donuts for her wee tots.

[UberVernunft]

I'm picturing soccer moms huddled outside of donut shops and restaurants with their kids in cold, blowing rain.

Sweet irony.

If I smoked I would be the first near the window, with cigarette in hand, slowly chewing in front of those kids on a big 'ol chocolate covered donut.

[monkeyshine]

Those businesses that are putting smokers ahead of youth are shortsighted and grossly irresponsible
This issue has always been about health."
the bylaw was meant to protect children, not harm them.
Children are a vulnerable minority. But you can't discriminate against them simply because you want to make money."

What a collection of busy-body imbecilic whiners. These people make me ill. They will never, ever mind their own business. They interefered, and since it backfired, how much you wanna bet they are going to interfere again. The store owners should just ban minors, period... smoke or not.

[Tarzantheape]

(Do you think Bill is going to remove Hillary's panties anytime soon?)

Who?, Bill?...Nah, he's too busy playin Hide-The-Cigar with young, straight, less-inhibited women...

But, I'd be willing to bet my kick-stand that Reno gets another shot at it.

[chantal7]

"Those businesses that are putting smokers ahead of youth are shortsighted and grossly irresponsible," he said. "They are putting profits ahead of employees and customers. This issue has always been about health."

Wellllllllll, those donuts shops are in business to make "profits", dunce, and it sounds like they are putting their customers first or else the customers would have stayed away.

I love this! I hope they keep it up! It's a strike for freedom! These people had a choice, smokers or kids and they chose smoking customers so that they could stay in business and for freedom against the liberal nazis.

Most nazi anti-smokers usually don't eat donuts, cheesecake, drink caffinated drinks, or anything else that they "think" (have been told by their commie gurus that it's very unhealthy so as to control them) might harm them.

I could have throttled like idiots a couple of years ago when my dentist's son got a cancerous brain tumor, at the time nuts like these were trying to convince everyone that too done/burned hot dogs would cause such. My dentist was agonizing over it to me and it was heartbreaking.

[Howlin]

I'd light it up for you. And maybe on hot days we could prop the door open...........ah, the aroma of hot donuts and nicotine!

[3catsanadog]

When that battle occurs I will have a carton of Marlboro's along and will be puffing on 5 cigarettes at a time. My weapon will be blowing smoke in their faces.

[UberVernunft]

Maybe somebody that comes on this thread can point me to the part of the Constitution that guarantees donuts to children.

Let's see...

Article 4, section 2: "...no child shall be abridged in the eating of donuts, pastries, and other candies, as may be enumerated at some future point..."

[kempo]

Someone needs to ask the people who passed the no smoking law just when did doughnuts become a good health food for kids? I'll bet if the truth was known, sugar over the long run is more harmful than tobbacco. I keep thinking the people will wake up to the stupid laws that are being passed. Maybe not.

[BJungNan]

I just want to know what it is with Canadians and donuts? It's like there are at least 2 or 3 donut shops on every block.

Coffee, donuts and cigarettes for breakfast. Why, what do you 'av in the morning?

[Howlin]

" But you can't discriminate against them simply because you want to make money."

What does this MEAN? Can you explain it to me.......my brain just will NOT digest that.

Does it mean that I can't make money unless I let the rugrats in?

Pleeeeeeeasssssssssssseeeeeeeee, somebody help me!

[Lee'sGhost]

"We tried to obey the bylaw for one day and we lost half our business," she said.

Hmmmmm. That's strange. US resturant owners claimed that would happen to them, but the opposite happened. Turns out folks still eat EVEN if they can't smoke. Who knew?

[BansheeBill]

Personally, I'd go out of my way to visit a kid-free, smoking donut shop.

One of the few remaining donut shops near me that still allowed smoking just went no smoking last week. I kind of know the owner and asked him if it was a new city health regulation or something like that.

He said (the shop is on the edge of a kind or rough urban area) that over the last few years as almost all the other donut shops went non smoking, he did gain a lot of customers, but now as one of the last remaining that allowed smoking, his shop was becoming a haven for former alcoholics and recovering drug addicts who seemed to have a lot of energy and no place to go (and there are a number of rehab facilities in this city). He said most of these patrons (he got to know a lot of their life stories) would come in, order a cup of coffee and no donut or pastry and smoke a few cigarettes. The smoke didn't bother him as much as the place was becoming these "regulars", hang out, for most of the day, and almost ALL of the evening hours, and that there was little space for other customers to sit at the stools and booths, and that selling one cup of coffee to someone who sits at a stool for the better part of an hour didn't make sense business wise.

He said a lot of the "regulars" were really upset when he went smoke free, as they said it was one of the last donut shops for miles around that allowed smoking, and they did not know where they could go in the future.

[Thinkin' Gal]

As a result, the location where Ms. Jonasson stopped yesterday had laid off three employees who are minors, according to the manager, Susan, who withheld her last name.

And as an added bonus, the donut shop required three less employees on cleaning duty, now that the jelly ooze and other child-related messes have been eliminated.