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To: Squire
No your rule allows you to join forces with the Mormons , Christian Scientists and JW's among others that feel the word of God is not sufficient.

You have NO scripture to allow for the worship of Mary,no scripture to attest to the assumption..it is all made out of whole cloth so you do dodge and weave ..but you avoidance fools no one but yourself

Revelation 2:14 But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality.

Revelation 2:15Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.

Revelation 2:24 "Now to you I say, to the rest in Thyatira, as many as do not have this doctrine, who have not known the depths of Satan, as they say, I will put on you no other burden.

Doctrine matters to God!

Revelation 22:19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book ( tree )of life. of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

We are not free to add anything to His word..

804 posted on 01/11/2002 12:27:58 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
When you decide to stop tackling the straw men of your own creation, please let me know. In your last post, you again demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of Catholic teaching. By no means does the Catholic recognition of Sacred Tradition in addition to (not instead of) Sacred Scripture countenance Mormonism or similar innovations.

In Catholic teaching, the deposit of faith (aka "Sacred Revelation") is composed of Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. The concept of both written Scriptures and an oral Tradition (eventually placed in writing) are in keeping with the Jewish faith which preceded Christianity, since the Jews have both the Torah (written) and the Talmud (an oral tradition now committed to writing).

Sacred Revelation closed forever with the death of the last Apostle (who was almost certainly St. John). What remains is for the Church, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit to investigate and apply this Revelation -- a process which Ven. John Henry Cardinal Newman likened to the blooming of a rose (i.e., the flower has all of its components in the earlier bud state, but as it opens its beauty is better appreciated in progressively greater fullness).

Obviously this is an essentially different approach than that of the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc., since they claim to have received additional "revelation" after the death of the last Apostle.

Again, no one can credibly claim that the infant Church did not endorse all of the principal doctrines that the Catholic Church alone (or with the Orthodox) teaches to this day. The historical record is clear on that issue.

On the other hand, such innovations as sola Scriptura can be historically traced to the Lollards in 15th Century England. So it is Protestants who are like Mormons, since they have added new teaching long after Sacred Revelation terminated.

805 posted on 01/11/2002 12:43:07 PM PST by Squire
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To: RnMomof7
You have NO scripture to allow for the worship of Mary,no scripture to attest to the assumption..it is all made out of whole cloth so you do dodge and weave ..but you avoidance fools no one but yourself

I am sometimes tempted to believe that you are actually an anti-Protestant Catholic who poses as an anti-Catholic to make Protestants look silly. But I usually resist the temptation.

Aside the fact that Catholics do not worship Mary, I reject the notion that all doctrine must be found explicity found in Scripture. And you have produced not a single Scriptural reference supporting your position that all doctrine must be found explicitly in Scripture. Oh yeah, again, St. Paul teaches the antithesis of your position in 2 Thessalonians. But you already knew that.

807 posted on 01/11/2002 12:49:10 PM PST by Squire
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To: RnMomof7
to join forces with the Mormons , Christian Scientists and JW's

Interesting, I had missed this before. I did not really understand just how far you go in your ridicule of Catholicism. You equate Catholicism with the Mormons , Christian Scientists and JW's? Please clarify.

821 posted on 01/11/2002 3:05:12 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: RnMomof7
You have NO scripture to allow for the worship of Mary

For maybe the hundredth time, we do not worship Mary. And yes we have Scripture that teaches us to venerate her. It's right there in Luke but you don't choose to believe it. Mary PARTICIPATED in our salvation. Everything through God is Eternal and so Mary is still participating in our salvation. She is human, she is not worshiped, she is loved and respected. She magnifies the Lord, it says so and I believe it.

The sum total of all that we love and respect about the Saints, and yes I know that I am a saint, is the Grace that they received from God to live a Holy life. anyone knows that these people didn't do one good thing without Grace, we respect them because they prove that sinful humans can be Sanctified by God..Yes, I know it says it in the Bible but they are living examples of God's work.

Now, about the love and charity you show by persisting in accusing Catholics of worshipping Mary. You've been told but you will believe what you will believe or pretend to believe but doesn't it feel bad to consistently mislead others about our Faith?

I grew up as a Methodist and I don't hate the Methodists and I don't even think that they're mislead if they are listening to the Holy Spirit in their lives. Why do you hate Catholicism, why do you continually mischaracterize it? Does it make you feel superior? If you think you are evangelizing consider that your form of evangelization doesn't work. Oh yeah, you get kudos from those who feel the same way you do but have you converted one Catholic. I do have to thank you though, because for the last year you have made me think a lot about Catholicism and embrace it even more profoundly than ever.

831 posted on 01/11/2002 4:57:28 PM PST by tiki
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