Why Christians Don't Understand Non-Christians

ArGee | 1/3/01 | ArGee

[1L]

We have our own more open and accessable paths to where we want to go in this life and in the next.

Can you be more specific as to what that is and what you base it on?

[wai-ming]

Therefore, the rich man himself must communicate fairly to the people on the street (over the voices of the crowd) that his is the best banquet to attend.

...And people must be willing to trust him and follow his instructions if they want to find his gate and enter his banquet hall.

[CCWoody]

The Sign of Two Baskets of Figs?

[CCWoody]

I bet it must be Jeremiah 3, come to think of it!

[newgeezer]

Occam's Razor directly disputes your assertion here.

Oh, really? I recently toured Mark Twain's cave near Hannibal, MO. There was quite a lot of writing, nearly all of it older than myself, on many of the walls. Would you insist that the markings were a natural occurrence and, that they just happened by chance? After all, we didn't witness the act of writing; therefore, we cannot assume there were any writers. Right?

So, what is DNA? Aren't we finding it to be a "wall" with some "writing" on it? Sure, it's not letters and numerals like what I saw in the cave but, isn't it a code, a language? How much did poor ol' Darwin know about DNA?

Sure, you'll probably respond with another witty, seemingly intelligent denial of your Creator. But, keep an open mind about Him. Every day, wiser -- and, yes, more learned -- brains than yours become convinced of His existence.

[stuartcr]

The DNA and a cave wall are quite a stretch.

[newgeezer]

The DNA and a cave wall are quite a stretch.

You're right. There's a LOT more information encoded on a single strand of DNA that there is on all the walls in Mark Twain's cave. Sorry for the oversimplification.

[LuvItOrLeaveIt]

Oh, really? I recently toured Mark Twain's cave near Hannibal, MO. There was quite a lot of writing, nearly all of it older than myself, on many of the walls. Would you insist that the markings were a natural occurrence and, that they just happened by chance? After all, we didn't witness the act of writing; therefore, we cannot assume there were any writers. Right?

Nope, we cannot assume they are natural occurrences as we have independently verifiable evidence that writing is manmade.

So, what is DNA?

DNA Pronunciation: "dE-"en-'A Function: noun Etymology: deoxyribonucleic acid Date: 1944 : any of various nucleic acids that are usually the molecular basis of heredity, are localized especially in cell nuclei, and are constructed of a double helix held together by hydrogen bonds between purine and pyrimidine bases which project inward from two chains containing alternate links of deoxyribose and phosphate.

Aren't we finding it to be a "wall" with some "writing" on it? Sure, it's not letters and numerals like what I saw in the cave but, isn't it a code, a language?

Your analogy is one that is certainly used by laypersons, however, it is a false analogy. DNA is a specific molecular combination of elements. The structure of individual DNA molecules indicates specific genetic traits. It is not a code and it is not a language.

How much did poor ol' Darwin know about DNA?

Actually, Darwin knew nothing at all about DNA, hence the necessity to alter the theory of evolution to fit the new evidence.

Sure, you'll probably respond with another witty, seemingly intelligent denial of your Creator.

I do not deny any creator, I deny the assertion that a creator would have even been necessary without independently verifiable evidence to the contrary. You made the assertion, you trot out the alleged creator.

But, keep an open mind about Him.

My mind is always open to any presentation of independently verifiable evidence to support your assertion.

[Tares]

As for me, I'd suggest that my moral code (derived by reason) suffices just fine.

What is the starting premise (or premises) to which you apply reason and derive your moral code?

[ArGee]

So, if I'm understanding what your reply says, you're God?

Ha ha ha.

No.

I am presuming that you are being deliberately obtuse and don't really need an answer. I think my meaning was fairly clear. If I am wrong and you do need an answer, let me know.

Shalom.

[ArGee]

Actually, all books are inspired by God, otherwise, how would humans write them?

So you are saying that man has no creativity on his own?

It could be possible that one or two of those 40 writers could have had a little too much wine one cold nite while they were writing.

Lots of things are possible. What is your point?

Shalom.

[ArGee]

You keep repeating this same mantra, without providing substantiation for it.

I don't have to provide substantiation for it unless I want to convince you. But I have seen how you work. If it wasn't you who admitted to me that you wouldn't believe it was G-d if He took you for a walk across a black hole then it could well have been. I have asked you if you truly want an answer to a question you asked. I will wait until I see your reply. But between now and then the matter of convincing you is in G-d's hands. Your heart is far too hard, and your mind far too closed, for me.

Fortunately, His hands are big.

Shalom.

[ArGee]

I've never felt the need for more.

Need? Is this all about meeting a need you have?

There is so much more further up and farther in. I am going there. While I can draw breath I am going there. I never "needed" anything beyond my original simple faith. But I am going further up and farther in.

Stay where you are if you like. G-d bless you.

Shalom.

[ArGee]

If you can tell me why it is that you reject every other mythos, theological figurehead, God, and object of worship asserted as real by every other culture throughout the history of time on the planet, it may bring you a step closer to understanding why it is that I reject yours.

If you can tell me why it is that you accept the money in your pocket as being real money without having first evaluated every piece of counterfiet that was ever made, you may be able to understand why I am so confused.

If I remember correctly, you and I have danced these steps before. I don't think it turned out to be satisfying for either of us.

I reject what is not real in favor of the real. You can not see the real. That is too bad. But if you are happy, perhaps it is not too bad. Maybe it's good to be blind?

Shalom.

[Michael2001]

Good post. Bump

[ArGee]

Religion is just a comfort for the believer, and to some extent a controlling device.

I disagree. Perhaps we mean two different things by the word "religion."

Why should anyone require anything more than their own God-given faculties to know God?

Our reason is based on two things: 1) our knowledge and 2) our ability to process that knowledge without error.

Maybe you are very different from me. In my experience, both are rather limited. I can not imagine either one ever being sufficient to concieve of Him as He is, let alone both together.

Shalom.

[ArGee]

I was a 'non-Christian' for a long time. I think I undertand 'em pretty well.

Good for you.

My title is a little arrogant. Please forgive me for having seemed to speak for you.

Shalom.

[ArGee]

The rich man isn't talking to the people outside the many doors, it's just people claiming to know the rich man who are doing all the talking.

I see and hear Him.

And they are all talking at the same pitch and they are all saying different things.

I also hear them, but they are pretty easy to ignore. Perhaps you are too easily distracted? Perhaps you aren't really intrested in going to the banquet?

Why should the people go through your door as opposed to any other?

Hmmm. Did I say I had made a door? No, I didn't say that.

Shalom.

[ArGee]

Thank you.

Shalom.

[ArGee]

LuvIt, I have read ahead to the end of the thread. I have seen how you post, how you respond, how you ignore what you wish to ignore. I could be wrong, but I don't see any evidence of trying to understand or even trying to be understood. I see only someone who wants to cut someone else down. If I am wrong, you will have a chance to show me. But wait, I am forgetting that you have decided to quit this thread. No matter.

But I also think I know why you never saw G-d. The next time you go looking for Him, look up rather than down. He is far bigger than you think. And you are not nearly as big.

Shalom.