Posted on 01/03/2002 11:19:13 AM PST by ArGee
As long as hell exists, it IS an arranged marriage with a great number of people adhering at the point of a pitchfork. If your God really wanted to give people free will, there would be no hell. He wouldn't have to "allow sin into heaven," he could simply stipulate that those who don't go into heaven cease to exist completely. That way, the only incentive to worship would be love, and fear and coercion would play no part.
May I jump back in?
Let me postulate something. It is completely extra-Biblical so it is my own and I take full responsibility for it. G-d knows the ending from the beginning, so G-d knows what Hell will be before He creates it.
If you go to Genesis 1 you will see that G-d created light before he created any objects that currently cast light. I.e. sun, stars, moon. That means that the light spoken of first isn't the stuff that triggers the photoreceptors in our eyes, it's something else. Sages believe it is the Glory of G-d. The next thing G-d did was separate the light from the darkness. Now, notice He did not create the darkness, He simply created a place where the light did not go. If the light is, indeed, the Glory of G-d, then that place is the place where the Glory of G-d does not go. In other words, that place is hell.
At that time, it is not a place of torment or fire, it's just a place of darkness or, more accurately, G-d's absence. It's not intended as a place of eternal torment, just a place where people who don't want to hang around G-d can go to hang around.
In Christian theology, without G-d, man cannot be good. If you have read "Lord of the Flies" you will recognize the Christian theme. We need to be taught to be good and we needed G-d as the teacher as the first place. Before I get to my point, consider that this creation does not last very long as compared to eternity (which, I think, is your concern).
OK, here's the scene. You finally die and go to heaven. Maybe you've heard the Gospel, and maybe you haven't. If you haven't, Jesus introduces Himself. If you have, He can skip that step. Then he says, "Here are two doors. Through the door on the right is the place where I will be forever. If you go there, you will have me hanging around forever. I'm the king in there, so you will have to submit to my rule.
The door on the left is the place I created for people who don't like me. If you don't want to be with me forever I respect that choice. Over there, you people will rule yourselves. You can do whatever you like. I won't bother you, nobody will preach at you, nobody will try to convert you. You can run it yourselves just the way many on earth said they wanted it.
Which door do you want to go through?
At that point, those who have no interest in Jesus will choose the door on the left and be left to themselves to create an ordered society and live their lives as they please.
And, being human, it will become an eternal torment. Yet, being human, they will never admit that it could have been beter if they had gone through the other door and served Jesus. Never! Even if given an eternity to change their minds.
Does that make sense?
Shalom.
Let's say I think the Moon is God. I pray 'Oh God I worship you'.
Who's the prayer going to?
It depends on why you are praying to the "wrong" G-d.
If it's just because you never knew any better (say you have an IQ of 30 and really, really can't figure out that G-d isn't the statue of Joseph in your Church) then I don't think G-d will have a problem with that.
But there are other reasons to get it wrong.
I believe G-d is reasonable. I believe that people who are ernestly trying to get it right can count on G-d to save them, regardless of the mistakes they make. But I don't think G-d is interested in pride or sloth. And those are the primary reasons, IMO, most people don't believe in the "right" G-d.
Shalom.
Hypocrite. Another word you might want to look up. *g*
I do not include the Lord in this, I hesitate to call Him a creature....
Ok, here it is.......
You and this lady are stranded on this island (or remote world) with NO chance of rescue. You had a relationship in the old world with a lady and all you can do is agonize over how much you miss her, need her, can't live without her. Logically, you KNOW that you can NEVER get back to her, she may even be dead.
Now the lady stranded with you has loved you since you were a child. She's lived in your neighborhood, passed by your house daily going to school, has had classes with you, ached in her heart as you poured out your affections to others, and yet, steadfastly, she has loved you. The little things she did to express her feeling toward you were ignored or mis-interpreted.
Oh, you tried not to hurt her feelings over the years, but you really couldn't care less about her. Even when she was voted Most Friendly and Miss Congeniality and Queen at the school prom; and when lots of your friends simply adored her, you could not see what they saw in her.
And now, here you are, stuck with her on this isle. She hopes that NOW, as she manages to find food, prepare a shelter and extends friendship to you, that, FINALLY, you two can get together and live in love and peace.
But, all you do is pine for someone else.
In one's mind.
Shalom.
There is no way to give them freedom and then guarantee anything.
Shalom.
Do you think it is possible for these supernatural creatures to have intelligence?
If you answer no, then stop reading.
If you answer yes...You believe these creatures have intelligence. Is it too hard to imagine that they also have purpose?
Is it possible that one or more of these supernatural creatures would masquerade as some type of diety or even The True God Himself?
Is it possible a human could be duped into worshiping this creature that is masquerading as something it isn't?
Is intent enough? I believe the knowledge of God is hardwired into us. When I came to believe in God it wasn't as if I was given some new information, it was as if a light had been turned on. I believe that I always knew He existed, but the knowledge was buried or put away somewhere where I didn't see it.
So if you're worshiping some creature who claims to be God, is that really worshiping The One True God? Is intent enough?
I don't think so.
Well, we don't give children freedom because they don't truly understand the nature of the world and its dangers. Merely telling them fairy tales is not enough to make them really understand the evil that strangers can do, or the many things that can hurt them. The Bible refers to us all as children of God, and a mere book with a few references to hell can hardly be enough to make people capable of understanding the nature of what might await them. Even adults in our world have more than one safety net and the welfare of our loved ones is usually not limited by our deliberate restraint in honor of their "freedom" but by our lack of capability to intervene on their behalf. However, you and I obviously see things very differently, so we might as well give it up. We aren't going to come to an agreement, that's obvious.
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