[traditionalist]

American ideals came from the founders religious beliefs. I wasn't just European people who developed the successes of Western civilization. Surely there are millions of European decendants who are still living in the stone age as in parts of Russia. It was European people with a particluar beleif system that created Western civilization as we know it.

Ah, now we are getting down to brass tacks. You admit that Western people developed and held their ideals because they where Christians.

This is, of course, only partly true. There are a lot of other factors involved. However, for the time being, let's focus on Christianity since it is a very important one.

Since Western people were able to hold and develop their beliefs, and hence build a great civilization, at least partly because they were Christian, does it not stand to reason that mass immigration of non-Christian people into Western lands coupled with massive decreases in Christians' birth rates (not to mention apostasy rates) threatens Western Civilization?

And those principles will work for anyone else who decides to put them into practice.

Since these principles are fundamentally linked to Christinaity, as you admit, is it not highly unlikely that non-Christians will adopt them and put them into practice?

Of course, there is a lot more behind Western Civilization than Christianity. I encourage you to think about it, and how the other factors behind the creation of "Western Ideals" might be relvent to this debate; I will engage you on this in our next round.

On a tangential point, I don't think you are being quite fair to the Russians. While they never had any great economic achievements, their artistic and scientific contributions to Western Civilization are not to be taken likely. Economic wealth isn't the only thing that makes the West great.

. P.S. It seems you have kicked your habit of talking about skin color. That's good to see.

[garbanzo]

Since Western people were able to hold and develop their beliefs, and hence build a great civilization, at least partly because they were Christian, does it not stand to reason that mass immigration of non-Christian people into Western lands coupled with massive decreases in Christians' birth rates (not to mention apostasy rates) threatens Western Civilization?

But many of them are Christian - Mexicans are typically Catholic or Evangelical and Asians are quite often Catholic or Protestant.

[11th Earl of Mar]

Since Western people were able to hold and develop their beliefs, and hence build a great civilization, at least partly because they were Christian, does it not stand to reason that mass immigration of non-Christian people into Western lands coupled with massive decreases in Christians' birth rates (not to mention apostasy rates) threatens Western Civilization?

Yes. But immigration of Christians [both Catholic and Charasmatic] from Mexico and Central America would NOT threaten Western civilization, correct?

Personally, I would rather have a practicing Catholic family from Mexico live next door to me in America than a white, non-Christian European family from a 'Christian' nation like Bosnia.

[Sorry for the belated response. I just returned today from vacation.]