Posted on 01/02/2002 1:15:38 PM PST by Theresa
There is considerable confusion about the Catholic teaching of salvation. I found this on the internet. It was written by a former Presbyterian who became Catholic as an adult. It should be easy to understand he explains the docterine very well. .........
The phrase (in Latin, "Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus" or "Outside the Church there is no salvation") is a very ancient one, going back to the very early days of Christianity. It was originally meant to affirm the necessity of baptism and Christian faith at a time when
(a) A number of Christians were being tempted under torture to renounce their faith and deny Christ. (He's talking about the Roman Empire and Nero's persecution of Christians, throwing them to lions and such.) (b) Large groups of Christians were being led into "pseudo-Christian" cult-type groups, which were actually just a front for pagan philosophy and religion. (Such as the cult of Mithras which I think was practiced around the time after Jesus died.)
In response, bishops repeated that, if a person were to be aware of the meaning of Christ and then freely deny him or reject him, they had essentially turned away from God and the salvation he offers.
As Christians, we believe that we are saved only through Jesus. As St. Peter reminds his audience in Acts 4:12: "There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among mortals by which we must be saved." In most cases, this means that we believe baptism in water, in the name of the Trinity, is the fundamental requirement for salvation.
However, even from the beginning, the great Christian writer and teacher St. Augustine said that the salvation imparted through baptism can also be imparted through other means: specifically, through the "baptism of blood" (a non-Christian who dies defending Christian beliefs or holy places) and "the baptism of desire" (a non-Christian who has expressed a firm desire to become a Christian, and who shows all the signs of living a Christian life, but who dies before baptism). In both of those cases, the Church has always recognized that the Holy Spirit leads people to God in ways which we cannot always explain or document.
God is able to save anyone he chooses. We trust that he often does this is ways that are not obvious to us, within the hearts of individuals who are sincerely seeking the truth. Otherwise, it would imply that all of humanity was excluded from salvation before Christ came, and that much of humanity (which has not had the opportunity to hear the Christian message until recently) was doomed to be eternally separated from God. This would imply a very cruel and elitist God. Our belief as Christians and Catholics is that God desires the salvation of all people … even those who are not Christian. How he achieves that, however, is a mystery. But we know that our God is a loving God who would not allow people to suffer on account of an ignorance that they were not responsible for.
The Church teaches that baptism, faith, and a life lived in Christ are necessary for salvation. However, Vatican II also taught that, within every human heart, God places the law of conscience. Everybody has a deep sense of right and wrong which ultimately comes from God, and which will lead people to God if they attempt to follow their conscience faithfully. Because Jesus is God, those who move in the direction of God (even non-Christians) are ultimately moving in the direction of Jesus. And if they are moving in the direction of Jesus and His truth, ultimately they are expressing a desire for the salvation that God gives. The Church teaches that, while it is certainly easier to receive salvation as a Christian, it is not impossible to receive salvation in other religions.
This is a challenging situation: on one hand, we must be respectful of the good things to be found in other faiths, and encourage people to live their faiths with sincerity and love.
On the other hand, this does not mean that all religions are the same. We believe that Christ is the ultimate revealing of God to the world, and that the more we know about his message, the greater the chance that we will accept his offer and be saved. We must therefore continue to preach the message of the Gospel, and encourage interested non-Catholics to examine the claims of our faith, without in any way coercing or intimidating them.
Father Feeney was an American priest who, back in the 1940s, taught that if a person was not a Roman Catholic, they were condemned to hell. This has never been the accepted teaching of Catholicism, and Father Feeney was reprimanded by the Vatican for his mistaken understanding.
Nevertheless, there are groups which continue to hold to this strict interpretation, even after the Pope and bishops have specifically rejected it.
The phrase "Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus" teaches us that salvation is only through Christ, the Way, the Truth and the Life. But God is able to save whomever he pleases, whether they are baptized in the Roman Catholic Church or not.
It is important to remember that "the Church" in this phrase does not refer exclusively to the Roman Catholic Church. Salvation is a great gift, and God is a loving Father who wants all of his children to receive it. How he works this out, however, we will only understand in heaven. That is why, whenever we quote "Outside the Church, there is no salvation", we should also remember that "God is in no way bound by the sacraments."
Until then, we continue to proclaim Jesus as Lord (evangelization) and engage in respectful dialogue with followers of other religions, to discover the truths that God had revealed to them to guide them toward salvation, and to share with them the truth as we have discovered it in Christ.
And early Christians converted because.... Sorry, but that was a senseless set of statements you just made.
Your ignorance is truly astounding.
What I said was entirely sensible. And I do think there is a certain lack of humility in those who think that they know that EVERY person who hears the gospel once or twice or even more often does not convert because they are stubborn or sinful or rejecting God altogether. Since when did they learn to read minds? The human mind, the human condition, the variation of cultures and up-bringing and experiences that strongly influence each individual should be taken into consideration. If I had been born Muslim I would probably stay Muslim. I just don't know if I would have converted or not. If I was raised all my life to believe that being a Muslim was the most pleasing thing to God, and I want to please God, then why would I switch to another faith?
Your faith is a gift, no boasting about it is allowed and one way to boast is to look down your nose at non-Christians and think you know that they are going to hell and you are not. There is every reason to be grateful and no reason to look down your nose at non-Christians or to denigrate those who live good lives or to denigrate their good works. I am humbled by the good works of some non-Christians.
Jesus told the Pharasees. 'If you were blind you would have no sin. But "We see, you say" and so your sin remains.' What this means to me is that some are really blinded from impediments that keep them from giving the gospel a fair hearing. In such cases they may not, MAY not be culpable for not converting. But if, like the Pharasees, you really do see it but continue in your ways, then your sin remains.
How wonderfully Christian of you to point out. Go to your room young man, but stop long enough here to chew my shorts.
It was sarcasm -
continue chewing my shorts
continue chewing my shorts
Not only is your knowledge of Catholicism shallow, you are too. Proddy trash.
My knowledge of how Catholicism is practiced in my diocese is just fine thank you.
As for me being Proddy Trash - sorry you feel that way (though it is a charming Catholic/Christian thought)- though not surprising since you brought nothing to the dialogue.
I was a Catholic for 20+ years and my children still attend school there. However I tired of worshipping Mary and the Church more than Jesus, so I departed sometime ago - only because it is filled with Sunday Christians like yourself who seek comfort in the services, yet fail to carry the lessons through into your daily walk with Christ. What a pitiful situation that the Mother Church has slid into.
Right. So will I and am I am Catholic. You still don't understand.
Some Christians are catholic, not all catholics are Christian. It's a condition of the heart.
The parents will be held responsible for teaching error to their children. They will be held to account for leading their children astray.
Most protestant evangelical churches nowadays are Arminian. The RCC is works-based salvation.
Of course the never ending misunderstandings which people cling to about Catholics 'worshiping Mary', 'worshiping statues' etc. is old and tired. I don't understand why people keep bringing these up even when they are told that we don't do such things. Oh well.
Take yer "hail Mary";
...
Hail Mary full of grace the Lord is with thee Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus Holy Mary mother of God pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our deat amen.
I don't know if I'll EVER get that out of my head.
Praying TO Mary for intercession to Jesus. Unbiblical as the day is long.
Regarding salvation outside the Church, I believe we are all responsible to find the truth of what Christ wants us to do. In my opinion, and I left the Church at one time because of some of the things you mentioned, the Catholic Church has the fullness of truth. The splendor of truth. "The whole enchilada." And I shall never leave "home" again.
They're full of something, but Truth ain't it.
Got the same problem with my mom. (See no truth, Hear no truth, Speak no truth)
She's not sure why she believes what she believes, but she'll defend it to the death; unfortuantely.
If you find a chink in their armor, send me a FReepmail.
thanks
But, I can assure you, based on my research of the Bible...It will be inspite of the Catholic Church, not because of it.
I've come to think the same. Although, one wonders why they remain with the RCC once their eyes have been opened.
If we love God with our whole mind, our whole heart and all our strength and our neighbor as ourselves then I believe we are on the right track. The vehicle we use to get there may differ.
Best wishes.
You say you won't be able to get the "Hail Mary" out of your head. I regret that I wasn't saying it earlier in my life. After I started my devotion to Mary my spiritual life took off. There have been books written about Our Lady also, they explain many things. I think that Jesus giving us His Mother("Behold your Mother-Behold your son") is one of the most beautiful gifts Jesus gave to us. She certainly is my Mother, and I believe if you knew her correctly you would have a devotion to her also.
Peace be with you.
I believe that it is a constant daily struggle/and joy to strive for perfection. "Be ye perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect"
We have to advance in virtue, daily.
One of the first phrases I read in a Bible after I'd left the RCC, was:
Mat 23:9 And call no [man] your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Y'all have "Father so-and-so", yet he has no children; and his "title" is clearly anti-scriptural.
IIRC, they also claim to intercede on our behalf, to Mary and the other "saints".
Mat 23:3-10
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, [that] observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay [them] on men's shoulders; but they [themselves] will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi. But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, [even] Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no [man] your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, [even] Christ.
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