Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: RnMomof7
What is the difference beside the words being used? We agree that without an intervention of God the scripture can not be understood. We both believe that it is from hearing the word that faith comes.So without the "illumination " the word can not be heard or understood. Why do some receive the illumination and others not? What is the difference? Those that are dead in sin can not receive the things of God.That light is life ,it is the grace of God saying "come out"

The can receive the things of God if God (The same God that the Calvinist is always screaming is Omnipotent,) wants it to be so. The issue does make the choice for the individual, or does He make the choice understandable I find it amazing that Calvinists limit the Omnipotence of God by stating He cannot make the Gospel understandable to someone who is spiritually dead! The real issue is that the Calvinist system demands that man be passive while Love demands a active response. Being a woman, I am sure you understand that important difference. God (intiates-grace) man responds (faith-receive the free gift)-very simple.

At the moment of your conversion did you hesitate and say "wait a minute here ,let me think about this"? Or was the presence of God enough to make you desire Him above all else

Since each conversion is different one can not make an issue of it. Some do struggle-Wesley comes to mind.Augustine (if he was saved) seemed to had some problems. Luther also. Some see it very clearly and it is immediate. I was saved as a child so I do not remember the experience, but I always knew Jesus Christ was the eternal Son of God, the Saviour of the World. I believe children, not having alot of mental baggage find that reality easier to accept.

Finally, why some receive the illumnation and some do not? All receive some Illumination. (Psa 19:1-3, Rom 1:19). At that point of general Illumination an individual is either positive (desiring more) or negative (rejecting God-Rom.1:21). God will provide more Illumination to those who will believe. The Gospel goes out and will fall on hard ground and soft. The 'soft' ground will respond freely.The 'hard' ground react and reject. There are areas of the world where the negative volition is so great that those areas have been closed to the Gospel. One Missionary spent I believe 40 years in Mongola and had one convert! Depravity does not mean a dead will. It means a weakened, corrupted will but one that can still cry out save me

That they should seek the Lord,if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us(Acts 17:27)

Even so, come Lord Jesus

247 posted on 01/15/2002 10:48:58 PM PST by fortheDeclaration
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 228 | View Replies ]


To: fortheDeclaration; RnMomof7
you to RnMom: The real issue is that the Calvinist system demands that man be passive while Love demands a active response.

Not at all. Calvinists recognize the scriptural truth that man is spiritually dead. Natural man is a spiritual corpse, spiritually stillborn. Therefore, he can receive nothing unless God gives it to him first. Corpses don't cooperate. You understand, forthe, that in this sense, a Calvinist or, more simply, those who acknowledge the utter sovereignty of God in the matter of salvation see in the newly regenerate creature a spiritual creation as fresh as Adam himself was, truly a new creation given life by God's own hand? This is not a casual idea.

you to RnMom: Being a woman, I am sure you understand that important difference. God (intiates-grace) man responds (faith-receive the free gift)-very simple.

I'm a single man so I don't grasp it at all. RnMom, you're going to have to explain this as a woman so backward creatures like me can grasp it.
260 posted on 01/16/2002 4:38:18 AM PST by George W. Bush
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 247 | View Replies ]

To: fortheDeclaration
The can receive the things of God if God (The same God that the Calvinist is always screaming is Omnipotent,) wants it to be so. The issue does make the choice for the individual, or does He make the choice understandable I find it amazing that Calvinists limit the Omnipotence of God by stating He cannot make the Gospel understandable to someone who is spiritually dead! The real issue is that the Calvinist system demands that man be passive while Love demands a active response. Being a woman, I am sure you understand that important difference. God (intiates-grace) man responds (faith-receive the free gift)-very simple.

My dear friend..You were gone for a long time...(or at least our paths didn't cross :>) My son was also saved as a child..the gospel was preached and he shot up like a rocket and ran down to the altar.His mom could not restrain that 7 year old boy. He has never wavered in his faith (that is now 20 years ago), That was the grace of God.He never asked me if it was alright...he never hesitated..he flew into the arms of God. He never considered refusing.That is irresistible grace.
As I fell to my knees ,I never considered that there was a choice involved. In the presence of God there is nothing else to do...you fall on your face in repentance (and then spend the next 25 years ,this year, praising Him for His grace and mercy). God did indeed initiate the moment of my conversion.His presence and His grace turned my heart toward Him. I could not have said no, because it never occurred to me..

Now for years I would watch people say they were "debating" going to the altar.I wondered how any man could "debate" or fight the grace of God. I would look around me and see a world that pays lip sevice to God..but lives like children of satan..I would ask myself, how is it that they do not seek God? How can they ignore Him and joke about hell? They have "heard" the gospel,they know the consequences of continued refusal of God, yet they "refuse" to hear Him>

I asked you a very plain question..what makes the nice Methodist lady next store to me "different" than me ? She never misses church. She is not out on the streets sinning , but outside church on Sunday there is no evidence of a relationship with Christ. What is the difference FTD? I have come to believe that the difference is the grace of God..nothing of me. He showered me with His amazing grace.....and as it washed over me there was no other response but "Why me Lord ??Why me?" Words I repeated over and over in response to being given a new life, words I still say "Why me Lord? Why me?. Then and now I desire Him above all else..

Since each conversion is different one can not make an issue of it.

Yes God finds us in very different places. But I think we must make an issue out of it,or else we can find ourselves in error.

Finally, why some receive the illumination and some do not? All receive some Illumination. (Psa 19:1-3, Rom 1:19). At that point of general Illumination an individual is either positive (desiring more) or negative (rejecting God-Rom.1:21). God will provide more Illumination to those who will believe.

The will is the issue here isn't it?

The Gospel goes out and will fall on hard ground and soft. The 'soft' ground will respond freely.The 'hard' ground react and reject.

And then the question why is some ground not "turned over?" It is God's "job" to prepare the soil to receive the seed..(all we do is toss it out).....yet he leaves some ground hardened..unable to receive the seed..

There are areas of the world where the negative volition is so great that those areas have been closed to the Gospel. One Missionary spent I believe 40 years in Mongola and had one convert! Depravity does not mean a dead will. It means a weakened, corrupted will but one that can still cry out save me

I am not talking about the 3rd world..I am talking about the USA where most everyone has been exposed to some degree to the gospel,and yet they refuse. Why would a corrupt will that wills to sin call out for forgiveness?

266 posted on 01/16/2002 10:01:18 AM PST by RnMomof7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 247 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson