Trucking Industry Safety Issues: Drivers working long hours for little pay

Keith Stanley gulped some fresh coffee and leaned forward at the table, his bloodshot eyes narrowing. "Sweatshop is a good description," the longtime trucker and father of five said as he tried to pump some life into his weary body at a truck stop in Fort Stockton, Texas.

"But I've got to do it. I'll probably kill myself putting my kids through college. But there's no way I'm ever going to let them drive a truck."

In the last two decades, trucking has become the lifeblood of the American economy, transporting 8 billion tons of freight annually - almost two-thirds of the total tonnage shipped. Yet as trucking moves the economy, truckers aren't reaping what they've helped sow. They drive hard, putting in long hours day and night, often for not much more than minimum wage. And they have to drive tired, pushing mile after mile on a few hours of sleep, sometimes just to break even. That makes the nation's highways treacherous for both cars and trucks - more truckers die in accidents each year than workers in any other profession. Congress, the trucking industry and safety advocates have debated for years how to get tired truckers off the road.

But the bedrock problem isn't the law that tells truckers how long they can drive. It's an economic system that pushes them to drive past exhaustion, no matter what the law says. Although some companies strictly enforce federal regulations and pay their drivers well, many don't, and independent drivers confront the hard truths of deregulation. "Until you change the economics of trucking, nothing will happen," said Bob McEvoy, former director of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration's Maine office.

"The Kansas City Star" spent nine months examining the trucking industry. As part of the project, a reporter drove an 18-wheeler for 6,000 miles to witness the pressures faced by truckers as they try to make a living. All along the way, "The Star" found zombie-like drivers putting in long hours for low pay. They were spending weeks away from home and family, living out of duffel bags at crowded truck stops, showering in seedy stalls the size of broom closets and waking in the middle of the night with prostitutes banging on their truck's door. Some drivers said they were running so hard that they hadn't been home in two months. Some were on their third and fourth marriages - a driver drinking coffee at a Texas truck stop had just been divorced for the fifth time.

At the Dixie Truckers Home in McLean, Ill., one Missouri driver said his wife had just told him that if he didn't get home that weekend, she was leaving. "There's no way I'm going to get there," he said. "They've got me headed in the opposite direction." A trucker sitting next to him said he could relate: "The only thing I've got left is four cats and a truck."

Scott Voyles was bleary as he finally finished dinner about 9 p.m. Driving 130,000 miles a year has let him take home about $36,000, he said, but then he has had to pay for his own repairs.

It all goes back to deregulation. In 1980, Congress loosened restrictions on the trucking industry, making it easier for companies to start up and haul freight from coast to coast. Deregulation, which many believed would create equal opportunities, became unbridled competition as the number of trucking companies grew from 30,000 to more than half a million. Freight rates fell, bankruptcies skyrocketed and wages stagnated. "If a guy can get a bank loan and a truck, he can go out and start a company," said Dave Brinkman, an owner-operator from Indiana. "And to get a load, he's got to cut the rate. And the cheap truck always runs." The average trucker works more than 3,000 hours a year - roughly 60 hours a week - and makes between $30,000 and $45,000, said Julie Anna Cirillo, the government's head truck-safety officer.

"Most blue-collar Americans work about 2,000 hours a year," she said. "So they're working 50 percent more for not much more pay, if any more pay." Jerry Stricker, a trucker from Illinois who has driven for 44 years, said he had never seen things so bad. "I made more in the '60s than I do now," said Stricker, who had stopped for lunch at a truck stop in Denton, Texas. "I'd take home more and be home more. Now, it's all cutthroat."

Stricker drives 3,000 miles a week, working an average of 60 hours. His take-home pay is about $500 a week - or less than $8.50 an hour. Gary Rosenberger of Kirkwood, N.Y., who has been driving a truck since he was 16, also logs about 3,000 miles a week and makes $500. He tries to stay on the road a month at a time to make more money. When you add in time spent waiting to load or unload, he said, "there's days out there a trucker don't even make minimum wage." Last year, Brinkman drove 130,000 miles and grossed $149,000 with his truck. His taxable income: $18,000. This year, helped by lower fuel costs, he's clearing about $3,000 a month before taxes. Brinkman said he was paid about the same money per mile in 1972 but fuel then cost only 27 cents a gallon.

Still, Brinkman figures he's in better shape than most truckers because he has a shop and can do his own repairs. But he worries about some of his friends. "I've got guys I run with, they have to cut costs because they're broke," he said. "And a man out here going broke, he's going to run as hard as he can."

Most truckers must drive long and hard to make money because they're paid by the mile - not by the hour. And unlike almost all other industries, trucking is exempt from the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938, the law that established a 40-hour workweek. That means truckers don't have to be paid minimum wage - $5.15 an hour - or overtime unless they're in a union. Union drivers often are paid by the hour, but fewer than one-fourth of truckers belong. As a result, truckers routinely work more than the 60 hours a week and 10 hours at a stretch that federal law allows.

In a 1997 survey conducted by the University of Michigan Trucking Industry Program, 10% of the drivers reported working more than 95 hours in the past week, with the average non-union driver working 66 hours. To drive that hard, truckers sometimes take extreme measures - even answering the call of nature without stopping. In fact, Oregon passed a law in 1999 making it a crime to toss containers of urine onto roadsides. A state transportation official blamed the growing problem on harried truckers. North Dakota transportation officials want a similar law. They've put shields on maintenance tractors because mowing crews have been getting splattered up to 40 times a year when they run over urine-filled containers.

At 1 a.m. in Waco, Texas, a truck crept into the Flying J Travel Plaza. The driver backed his rig into one of the few open parking spots, then crawled directly into his sleeper berth in the back of the cab, so exhausted that he forgot to shut off his left-turn signal. Inside the truck stop, several haggard drivers stood in line at the fuel desk, duffels in tow, waiting to get a coupon for a shower. In the trucker's lounge nearby, one driver stared blankly at the TV screen while another was sprawled across two seats, out like a light.

Over in the restaurant, two truckers filled their plates with pancakes and home-fried potatoes at the breakfast buffet, then shuffled back to their tables to eat in silence, their circadian rhythms in chaos. Two hours later, the red turn signal was still blinking on the truck out in the parking lot.

Robert Flint can see truckers' exhaustion at weigh stations, too. Trucks sometimes get backed up at the scales, said Flint, a state trooper in Maine. As inspectors walk down the line, they find drivers asleep at the wheel after waiting only 15 or 20 minutes. "That's pretty scary," Flint said. Flint said the truckers were not solely to blame for driving too hard. "They're just trying to make a living." The bigger problem, Flint said, is the companies. "They push these people," he said. "When these trucks park and are not moving, they're not making any money." Sometimes, Flint said, the truckers point out faulty brakes or bad tires to the troopers. "I've stopped truckers before and had them say: 'You didn't hear this from me, trooper. But I want you to issue a summons to the company. I've been telling them to fix this problem for three months, and they keep blowing me off,' " he said.

"Have I heard that? You bet," said Dave Osiecki, the American Trucking Association's vice president of safety and operations. "It's probably the exception rather than the rule, but I'm certain that's occurring out there, because there are some companies that don't take maintenance as seriously as they should."

In May 1999, the owners of C&J Trucking Co. in Londonderry, N.H., were sentenced to four months in federal prison and the company was fined $25,000 after the owners admitted they permitted truckers to violate hours-of-service rules. The company paid drivers "off the books" for illegal driving time. An investigation was triggered after a company driver rear-ended a car on I-93 in August 1995. The crash killed four people.

Shippers, too, have created a system that pushes truckers to drive farther and faster. In recent years, manufacturers and retailers began stocking smaller inventories to decrease warehouse costs, so when they need an item, they need it fast. It's called "just-in-time" delivery. Shippers now demand precise delivery times, sometimes penalizing drivers for being late - which can happen if truckers run into delays from road construction, heavy traffic or bad weather. And once they get to the dock to load or unload, truckers often must wait. While they do, they don't make any money, and the hours count against their allowable driving time. "We show up on time, and we sit and sit and sit," said Dave Morgan, a driver for Werner Enterprises. Recent studies have found that truckers spend 30 to 40 hours a week waiting at the mercy of the shippers and receivers. Many truckers don't log those hours because they would cut into the driving time they're allowed.

James Thurman, sitting at the breakfast counter at a Virginia truck stop, said that the week before, he had gotten to the dock of a home improvement store at 4 a.m. after driving all night. He got out of there at nearly 3 the next afternoon. "It was a whole day wasted," he said. "With any other job, the law says you're to be paid for the work you do. But we don't get paid for that."

For many truckers, the job isn't worth it. Industry experts say annual driver turnover at many companies runs from 60% to 120%. That has created a shortage of 80,000 to 100,000 drivers, according to the American Trucking Association. To find more drivers, the Truckload Carriers Association is asking the Motor Carrier Safety Administration to authorize a test project putting 18-, 19- and 20-year-olds in big rigs. Current law requires interstate truckers to be at least 21. Although critics say the move would be deadly, the trucking association says the young drivers would be required to undergo lengthy training and close supervision until they turn 21.

Want ads for drivers fill the numerous trucking publications. Companies also are searching for drivers in non-traditional places. In California, prison outreach programs are placing parolees in trucking jobs. Some seasoned drivers don't like the newcomers. "It's like they scraped the bottom of the barrel and put 'em all in trucks," Bill Rushing said as he sat at the horseshoe-shaped counter in a truck stop in Toms Brook, Va., eating fried potatoes and a sausage omelet. "You can't trust them," said the trucker from Baton Rouge, La., who has been driving off and on for 25 years. "Now you see guys running across the country, falling asleep, crashing and killing somebody." Maine trucker Guy Bourrie said he, too, had seen a change in the new drivers. They travel at speeds well over the posted limit," Bourrie said. "They weave in and out of traffic and follow less than a car length behind autos, using intimidation in hopes that the small vehicle will move. They cheat on their logbooks, drive when overtired and fill the CB airwaves with language that would cause a barroom dog to drop its bone."

Almost everyone agrees that highway safety won't improve until the trying conditions of the trucking industry are addressed. The first thing that needs to be done, safety advocates say, is to start paying truckers by the hour and not by the mile. "The pay-by-the-mile system is the root cause of driver fatigue," said Daphne Izer, a founder of Parents Against Tired Truckers. "Until truck drivers are paid for all time worked - including loading, unloading, waiting and driving - the highway truck crash rates have little chance of decreasing." Izer, of Lisbon Falls, Maine, formed her group after her 17-year-old son and three friends, ages 14, 15 and 16, were killed by a tired trucker in October 1993 while on their way to a hayride.

They're putting in so many illegal hours, one study said, that carriers would have to hire 130,000 more drivers at a cost of between $2 billion and $7 billion to get legal. But studies also indicate the public is willing to pay for safer trucks. A 1998 Lou Harris poll conducted for Advocates for Highway and Auto Safety found that 71% said they would pay more for goods to get tougher truck safety standards.

I stand corrected. The word "union" did appear in the piece but it still sounds like unions, one way or the other, don't have much of an impact on the main issue, which seems to be about the unfair trade-offs imposed on drivers. On the one hand, drivers are often forced to wait for loading/unloading delays (without compensation, or only getting out through "donated" free labor) with no liability or penalty being imposed on the customer. Then on the other end the driver's schedules are squeezed by the liabilities imposed on them by the customer, through drop-dead delivery deadlines.

Whether or not the government is your mommy, your schoolmarm, or the personification by an avuncular cartoon symbol of complex interactions between interchangeable, revolving business and governmental elites, there are still only so many hours in the day. There are so many miles that need to be driven, so many hours that need to be devoted to maintenance, to rest, to loading/unloading, delays... It's not rocket science. It's not even calculus. Somebody really good at arithmetic should be perfectly capable of making really worthwhile contributions to the debate. But it looks like keeping up the accounting ledgers of the little guy -- helping the average trucker stay in the black -- doesn't count for a lot, when it comes to reckoning costs and sorting out benefits and penalties. I don't necessarily think "unions", "government", or "self-regulated industry councils" are the people best qualified to find a solution. But it does look like a serious national problem that's only going to get worse until a solution can be found that's acceptable to everyone's best interests.

I've seen it here on FR a couple of times.

Somebody said, "a perfect democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner".

You seem to be implying the two wolves are the unions and government, devouring the truckers.

Based on what I've heard here, I'm leaning towards a scenario that has the truckers squeezed in between indifferent Big government on the one hand (on the federal level, with the collusion and complicity of big donors and industry lobbyists helping to make sure that the truckers will always be liable for the big Catch-22 "you-must-wait-for-unloading/but-pay-always-for-late-delivery"), and then on the other hand, truckers are dogged by ceaselessly vigilant Small government (on the local municipality and state level) and a milliion petty tyrants. The day-to-day obstacle course of state patrol highwaymen laying ambush from behind bridges. Global positioning monitors making sure There-Are-NO-Deviations. All the logsheets, dispatchers, regulations, etc., the quotidian manifestation of the Big Government/Business partnership, always banging on the side of the truck, showing up cherry in the rear-view mirror, or otherwise imposing penalties and inconveniences on the working stiff.

And in the end, maybe, the biggest squeeze is between the voters and government. We all get our low dollar inventories delivered to Wal-Mart and K-Mart at the lowest possible cost, so who's got a bitch about that?

And the coffee at most of the truck stops really sucks.

And certainly this fellow couldn't chose a different profession. He's stuck forever as a truck driver. Poor guy. My heart bleeds.

Be thankfull he didn't or your stomach would be empty, your cars gas tank empty, the department store shelves empty. Every thing you eat or use likely has been brought to you by a truck. It's not BJ and the Bear or Smokey and the Bandit. I drove back in 84-85 and it wasn't no picnic then. Try driving a 76,000 pound rig from Buffalo, NY to Knoxville overnight. Spend three weeks onnthe road and come home to a $50 check because the layovers ate your profits. If the truck doesn't move you don't get paid. But you very well still have to eat.

The article isn't talking about Roadway, Everett, or UPS. It's talking about companies who pay nothing and run the drivers the hardest. One of the worst Kodak moments is to pull over in a rest area dead tired for an hour or two sleep. You know not to climb in the sleeper or you'll be out for at least 8 hours so you sleep in the seat. Then you wake up to the sound of a truck pulling off and you see it. In a dead panic your foot goes on the brake before you realize it's the truck beside you moving and you remembered you pulled over. Does that scare you? It should!

An OTR driver is at the mercy of the company dispatcher. They make the promises you can't keep and don't keep the promises they made you for driving all night for a load headed in the general direction of home just to see it go off the lot on another tractor then tell you it's Friday afternoon call me Monday morning and we'll start getting you a load going in the opposite direction. Fine in the mean time you are 1500 miles from family and likely in an area with no truck facilities. Texas used to be the worst for that one I dreaded a load going there.

Think truckers know all the good places to eat? Think again! You eat where there's a place to park and eat what is cheap. The only decent meal I had at a truckstop in nearly 8 months driving was in Kingdom City, Missouri at Adkins Truck Stop.

Or here's a better idea ride with a driver who can't read. It's a riot. Ever try riding in a car with someone else driving? Most persons can't do it. How do they expect such an arrangement in an 18 wheeler? Just about the time you get some trust in your partners abilities he wakes you up and says grab your log book & update I ran off the road. You ask where? He says outside Nachodoshas {sp} Texas. You look out the sleeper and ask where's the road? He says up there. You asked what happened. He says I tried to make a U turn and the wheels went off the road. Then you remember the hi-way is a two lane not a four lane.

So the state patrol shows up lucky for both of you it's a Rookie who doesn't understand what just happened. The wrecker shows up and the driver looks and says who was driving? Your partner admits as much then the wrecker driver says in my 25 years as a wrecker driver I have yet to see such a stupid stunt as this. You sleep lightly if at all from then on. For the responsibilities and required skills needed to do the job it is the lowest paying job in the nation bar none. How many jobs you know of require sworn statements under penalty of perjury each time you come on duty? A trucker is required as much to certify the saftey of the truck.

Granted some drivers do not need to be on the road. As long as the payscale remains at the bottom and working conditions do not drastically improve it will not get better. As a matter of fact when the Mexican trucks get released for OTR on our interstates it will be a blood bath. But hey the delivered product will be cheap right? Think about what I just posted the next time you get behind a truck to avoid getting a speeding ticket. I got out because it just wasn't worth it. I was lucky I had other skills to fall back on.

I also see you think the government should not limit the duty hours of a driver. I challange you to drive for 6 months and say that. Weird things happen after so long behind the wheel. You can either try to stay awake with coffee and smokes or you can be the babbling idiot spewing out trash 90 miles a minute on the CB. Wired I think it's called. Some standards of reasonable saftey must apply. The companies I guarantee you will not volunteer to police themselves. Loosen the hours restriction and the pay will go down & hour worked will increase. These are not local drivers most locals are exempt from OTR regulations. A local driver means you get to stop and move around every hour or less. OTR means you stop to fuel and eat once or twice a day.

I hope everyone will read this about 4 times:

Right now we are stopped and checked at scales, rest areas, and along roads. Our logs and paperwork are reviewed constantly. We are constantly monitered by satilite positioning systems, computers and every branch of the police force. We can be searched withour probable cause, we can be stopped just for the hell of it. If we stop to take a nap, the cops will bang on our trucks and demand to see our logbooks or inspect our trucks.

If the average driver were subjected to all the laws, regulations, and hassles truck drivers have to put up with, there would be a rebellion in this country.

After the 1995 FAA reauthorization Act was passed, I, in my wrecker business, was subjected to a lot of this crap, and I will tell you that you have no idea how bad it is. Next time you see a professional driver of any kind, shake his hand and thank him for "being a part of what keeps America rolling...."

I also see you think the government should not limit the duty hours of a driver. I challange you to drive for 6 months and say that. Weird things happen after so long behind the wheel.

Thank you for providing common sense to this argument. As I mentioned in another post, my husband is a driver and I know they get sloppier when they put in too many hours (and he is a local driver who gets in and out of the vehicle.) I've also taken my share of road trips and have a few hundred thousand miles under my belt from commuting to and from work. Fatigue is reality.

I am not a big fan of unions, but I don't necessarily think union representation is a bad thing in certain jobs. It's BS that unions always drive prices up. My husband is a union driver for a package delivery service. Their closest competition is non-union and charges more for the same service.

You are right about the Mexican trucks- it will make things worse. That is where union leaders were on the right track.

I have driven a truck. It is not the governments job to be my mommy. I happened to drive for a small company and was paid by the hour. So I am intimately familiar with the job.

By the hour would work where as by the mile does not. That's the problem. I won't ever drive again but if I did I would never drive paid by the mile. If a company was by law forbidden to pay on the mile and instead by the hour the trucker would come out better both saftey and money wise. For owner operators it should be the same for the driver plus milage on the truck. Your time distance ratios will keep you and the the company honest and pay for such things as waits at the destination beyond a reasonable time should be paid as well. This would also get the driver paid for the other freebee's enjoyed by the company such as fueling by the trucker. It's not ripping off the company it's earned pay for a job you do.

The companies as it stands now get's a free security guard for the rig when it's not moving. While it may not be the governments job to be your mommy it is their job to ensure safe hi-ways. A fatigued driver is a hazard to all including himself.

How far will compaines push drivers? Here's one for you. I got put out of service in RingGold, Georgia for a worn trailer tire. The ticket was to me not my company. I had to call and get a ComCheck to leave the scales and follow the truck stop mechanic to the next exit for another tire.

Naturally the truckstop was fresh out of used tires so a new one was the only solution on the weekend. I called my company and told the situation. The saftey officer of the company was on duty that weekend. He was a retired trooper. I told him what was going on and he asked how far it was to the state line? Then he said go for it. Would you? Especially in Georgia? I hung up the phone and the mechanic started calling the scales. I started calling back my company and with some harsh words said buy a tire.

Jesse, I was a long-haul trucker for 6 years. This reporter did an accurate job. The reason, I beleive, for these mexican trucks and the idea of kids(18,19 and 20 year olds) driving trucks is for the exact reason you put forth for us getting out of the truck. They want an endless supply of cheap labor. Mexicans, kids or whoever. It's the same as any other industry. Cheap labor. That's why they deregulated trucking in the first place. Unions were driving the cost of transportation too high due to the wages having to be paid out to the drivers. If you want the highest quality, expect to pay the highest price for it. It's not uncommon for a trucker to put in 80 or 90 DRIVING hours in a week. Add to that, loading time, showering, eating, acquiring ammenities and other daily requirments and it makes for a long week. Plus, you're never home long enough to enjoy the fruits of your labor. For an uneducated young person, or a person from across the border, the money sounds good and the travel does too. So, expect to see more safety problems as long as the politicians are getting theirs from industry interests to make sure there's a steady supply of cheap labor. What do you think NAFTA was really about? Our goverment is bringing our wages down to par with the rest of the world.

I worked at UPS to put my self through college and get an engineering degree.

While I was there, working my backside off, I got to know a lot of truck drivers.

College was a joke to them because they knew that they were making more than I would see after decades in engineering.

After just a few years they were pulling in much more than I make now after 7 years of experience. And I am at the top of my pay grade.

The same goes for workers on the line in most aircraft plants. I knew an engineer that was being hassled by some hourly guys over something. He finally told them "hey, just because you guys make twice as much as me doesn't mean you can just blow me off." I guess their jaws dropped. It was probably the first time they realized how good they had it.

The union employees love to whine but they fail to realize that the corporate landscape changed a long time ago.

They, the blue collar workers are the elite. Everyone else is dirt.

There's a big confussion in here about trucking companies. UPS, Roadway, ect are exceptions rather than the rule. A OTR job with most other companies is less than minimum wage for hours actually worked. Why do they stay? Usually for a shot at a company that does pay better. These companies as well hire who they know rather than off the street.UPS may pay great I can name you plenty more who do not. I worked for JB Hunts competition we earned the same wages. I'll give you a clue. When you see a tractor with a sleeper they will be the ones working for peanuts usaually. Ever notice a sleeper in a UPS truck? It's city to city terminal and drop. They will get to their destination during their shift. An OTR transport going from Tennessee to Califorina will not. You pick it up and usually you deliver it on a rushed schedule. You drive your tail off then wait while it's unloaded hopefully that day then you wait for another load maybe 1 hour maybe 3 days later which again is promised at an unreasonable time for the distance and hours you have to get there in a legal manner. I made more on National Guard drill weekends than I made in most weeks.

This article actually has the audacity to claim that the trucking industry was deregulated

You are sort of correct in your statement.

The deregulation did two things. It took down the boundries of operation for the trucking companies and it took the limit off how much or how little companies could charge their customers.

It was supposed to put all companies on a level playing field.

But every year an elected official, that have not even seen a big truck up close, make up new and improved versions of the laws. After many years, they start adding up. That is why there are more laws and regulations now than before deregulation.

Some of the laws are really stupid and end up causing more accidents in the long run.

Take for example, the City of Atlanta. There is a loop around the entire city. It has six lanes in either direction. Trucks are required to only use the two outer lanes. The fact is that all the traffic that is trying to get on and off are also using the two outer lanes while the inner lanes go unused. It doesn't seem very smart to force the trucks to stay in the outside lanes where they have to continually dodge merging traffic. And as we all know, the meaning of "merge" these days is look straigh forward and hope for the best. It used to mean entering a stream of traffic with out disrupting the flow of the traffic.

Another example is the city of Chicago. There is a wide eight lane expressway going through the middle of the city. Trucks are not allowed on it. Trucks are required to use a two lane surface frontage road. If you have every been in Chicago, you know how bad the traffic can be. Most trucks are just trying to get through the city. If they were allowed on the expressway, they could move along with less chance of getting into accidents. Many people say that the trucks will damage their nice expressway. I ask, who do you think paid for that nice road?

trucking companies pay 90% of the road taxes collected in this country. The major interstates were built for two purposes. One was so that the military could move their equipment around the country. The other reason was for interstate commerce.

I could go on and on with examples of stupid laws. The main problem is that most of the laws were not voted into existance. They were mandated without review.

Sorry, I think I was ranting again.

I'm leaning towards a scenario that has the truckers squeezed in between indifferent Big government on the one hand (on the federal level, with the collusion and complicity of big donors and industry lobbyists helping to make sure that the truckers will always be liable for the big Catch-22 "you-must-wait-for-unloading/but-pay-always-for-late-delivery"), and then on the other hand, truckers are dogged by ceaselessly vigilant Small government (on the local municipality and state level) and a milliion petty tyrants. The day-to-day obstacle course of state patrol highwaymen laying ambush from behind bridges. Global positioning monitors making sure There-Are-NO-Deviations. All the logsheets, dispatchers, regulations, etc., the quotidian manifestation of the Big Government/Business partnership, always banging on the side of the truck, showing up cherry in the rear-view mirror, or otherwise imposing penalties and inconveniences on the working stiff.

Well put!

I also think you have the makings of a good Johnny Cash song in there somewhere.

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