Restorationists vs Conservatives and Libertarians

Self | 12/23/01 | David Wright

[dcwusmc]

I am a RESTORATIONIST and I thank FReeper CHUCKSTER for the use of the term. I came to this position as a libertarian but others have come to it via conservatism and liberalism. At its essence the Restorationist philosophy holds that the United States live as part of a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC and that we have strayed FAR from our Constitutional roots. We hold that this situation is untenable to our survival as a nation and that we must restore our Constitution as the SUPREME law of the land. We must go back to our roots or we will DIE as a free nation.

This is NOT an issue of the WOD, though I still oppose it on Constitutional grounds. It is NOT an issue on RKBA though I support it unconditionally on Constitutional grounds. It is an issue of National SURVIVAL.

For those of you who are in favor of the WOD, let's agree that we need to get our Constitution restored FIRST, then we can see if the WOD can ever be Constitutional. First things FIRST, in other words. We must stop politicians and bureaucraps of ALL persuasions from using the Constitution as toilet paper. Hence RESTORATIONIST.

Your comments and suggestions are invited.

[A Navy Vet]

"You can win support by showing where government doesn't work and where it's overly intrusive or oppressive. But arguing that most of what's evolved over the years is unconstitutional is harder to prove and not likely to convince a wide audience. Even Jefferson and Madison didn't refuse to take on new powers when they thought that not doing so would hurt the country."

Exactly how I see it. Deal with the obvious first, especially that which can directly affect joesixpack and soccormom. In the meantime, how about a grassroots movement to encourage the creation of a non-partisan Legislation Review Committee that checks all legislation for compliance? Granted, the definitive word lies with the Supreme Court, but such a committee could put the spotlight on poorly written and/or obvious unconstitutional legislation prior to passage. Yes, I know, I'm dreaming.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS

[Snow Bunny]

Your right my dear friend. Thank you so much.

[dcwusmc]

Excellent idea. I've been for that a long time. A SPECIFIC cite that authorizes a particular action by FedGov!

[Calico]

It seems this thread has deteriorated. So, I am not sure what good a bump will do if we can't turn it back around. Still, here goes.

I, like nopardons, am curious how far back you want to go. I hope you mean to accept ratified amendments. If not, I am afraid I will have a hard time backing your effort. It would be counterproductive to have taken an oath to support and defend the Constitution, for which I was willing to give my life, and then join an effort to rescind my right to vote.

[dasboot]

Getting rid of capitation tax and the IRS would be a great Christmas gift for the Union!

I don't forsee the statehood issue in ND being an efficient actuating lever, however. But this is for others to determine, not me.

I think it will take a clear mandate from all the people to toss the IRS, etc. I often thought that if they would just poll the people in a nationwide referendum, that mandate would be clear; but now I'm not so sure: several years ago there was a bollot proposition in MASS to allow state income tax to increase. No brainer, right? Wrong. Apparently there are so many people dependent on government, in this state at least, that most of them voted for taxes. Critical mass has been reached, enabling lawful plunder. I hope this changes......

[blackie]

Freedom Is Worth Fighting For !!

The Right Of The People To Keep And Bear Arms Shall Not Be Infringed !!

An Armed Citizen, Is A Safe Citizen !!

No Guns, No Rights !!

Molon Labe !!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year !!

[dcwusmc]

Yes, libertarians are quite welcome here, except that a few who call themselves conservative act as if libertarians are the epitome of evil. Most folks here welcome libertarians as fellow-travelers on the road to freedom.

Don't be upset by those who welcome each new government intrusion with the statement, "Well, if you have nothing to HIDE, why would (-------) bother you?" It happens regularly and they happen to be either statists in conservative clothing or government shills or both.

So, WELCOME aboard from this RESTORATIONIST

David Wright

[dcwusmc]

Harry Browne's ditziness is a given, sad to say, but this is NOT a libertarian thing. I came to this position by way of having been a libertarian, but there are just as many who were "conservatives" who found that our present situation left them little worth conserving and even a Dem or two. It is not a partisan thing, except that we part company with statists of ALL stripes who view government as a growth industry and the Constitution as a suggestion.

[dcwusmc]

I see you are gracing this thread with your usual venom and lack of courtesy. Thanks for your input.

Unlike you, most of us here understand what needs to be restored, which is the balance between what the FEDERAL government is authorized to do (not very much at all, actually) and what the states (a bit MORE than FedGov) and WE, THE PEOPLE (most anything that does NOT infringe on others, such as murder, fraud, rape, etc.) may rightly do under the Constitution. I would suggest that a reading of the document in question might actually provide you with the answer to your own question. It was designed to be read andunderstood by everyone, not just lawyers and politicians, much as they'd like that!

And to forestall your next objection, I already (in reply 49) stated that I am leaving the WOD out of this. What I said was, AFTER we restore our Constitution as the supreme law of these United States, we can then look at the WOD and see if it can ever be made Constitutional or if it must be abandoned as an affront to a free people. If it can be made to conform to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights AND a large majority of the citizenry support doing it, so be it. I suspect that it will never be able to comply with Constitutional requirements, but maybe I'm wrong.

Any more questions?

[dasboot]

My own view is that I would like to restore the process, with its more stringent checks, under which a result was rendered; and not necessarily the previous result.

But I guess it's the view from the top that matters: both Adams and Jefferson occupied the same office consecutively; they espoused radically different schemes of governance under the guidance of the same document.

So, I guess I must vote for a restorationist. Any Jeffersons out there?

[davidosborne]

I don't think anyone wants to go back to the "old days" but rather the "old ways".. kinda of a old fashioned morality in a modern world.. what do you think?

David

[Jeff Smith]

WOD? RKBA?

What does that stand for?

[dcwusmc]

I can't argue enough for Bill of Rights enforcement! El Neil's idea is nicely radical and a surefire means of restoration!!

[davidosborne]

I think in recent history we have MISLED our nations children into believing that the Bible was written for "those people" in "those times" ........what a tragedy to miss out on the wisdom of our forefathers by dismissing them in the context that "They just don't understand that things are different in 2001"

FReegards,

David

[dcwusmc]

WOD is the federal war on (some) drugs, viewed by many as a war on our own citizens.

RKBA is the RIGHT to keep and bear arms, as guaranteed but not GRANTED by the Second Amendment.

[davidosborne]

WOD=War on Drugs

RKBA=Right to Keep and Bear Arms

[womanvet]

Ok, I understand. It is too serious for a moment of jocularity? Tom Dashole is from SD.

[dasboot]

I descry your allegory, and express hearty approbation.

[dcwusmc]

I think in recent history we have MISLED our nations children into believing that the Bible was written for "those people" in "those times"
........what a tragedy to miss out on the wisdom of our forefathers by dismissing them in the context that "They just don't understand that things are different in 2001"

This is also and almost exactly the same "thinking" regarding the Constitution. The same thinking shows up here, in a number of posters, and is just as wrong. Even the consequences are similar. When you misrepresent the Word of God, you stand to lose your immortal soul; when you misrepresent the Constitution, you stand to lose not only your OWN freedom, but take away your neighbors' and your nation's as well. Fortunately, in both cases, the consequences NEEDN'T be permanent and fatal.