Posted on 12/18/2001 5:07:16 PM PST by Map Kernow
LONG-LOST relatives of the human race have been traced for the first time. They live at the bottom of puddles. A family of humble microbes has been found to carry a special signalling gene that was previously known only in the animal kingdom. The discovery suggests that the single-celled creatures represent a vital staging post in evolution and that all animal life on Earth descended from something very like them.
The survivor from our ancient ancestors is the collar flagellate or choanoflagellate — a microscopic organism that uses a sperm-like tail to swim through shallow water, grazing on bacteria that lodge in its feeding “collars”.
Its remarkable evolutionary legacy, which stretches back at least 600 million years, has been identified by researchers in the US. Today 150 species of collar flagellates exist around the world, but evolution also gave rise to a more complex lineage that eventually led to the animal kingdom.
“They are the closest nonanimal organism to animals,” said Sean Carroll, Professor of Genetics at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, who led the research. “They are to animals what chimps are to humans, and by studying some of their genetic characteristics, we can begin to make some strong inferences.”
In the study, published today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Professor Carroll and his colleague Nicole King analysed proteins from a species of collar flagellate called Monosiga brevicollis. They located a type of signalling gene, receptor tyrosine kinase (RTK), which sends messages to other genes telling them to become active or making them dormant. It is almost identical to similar version found in animals as diverse as humans and sponges.
The findings support strongly the idea that many genes that animals use today were already in place and available on the eve of animal evolution, but changed in function with the step forward to multicellular organisms with distinct body plans and systems of organs.
The microbes, which measure five thousandths of a millimetre in diameter, are protazoans — simple organisms that were once regarded as animals but are now generally considered to be part of a separate kingdom, the single-celled protists.
Scientists consider the moment at which multi-celled animals, or metazoa, evolved from the protozoans to be one of the turning points in the history of life on Earth. The process is thought to have taken place about 600 million years ago.
“The question is, who were the ancestors of animals and what genetic tools did they pass down to the original animals,” Professor Carroll said. The evolution of the metazoa from the protozoans is one of the milestones in the history of life. To build a multicellular organism compatible with a multicellular lifestyle is something that is very difficult. It takes a lot of genetic machinery to do that, and you have to ask the question, did it all arise when the animals came along, or was some of it in place earlier? “We’re starting to get a glimpse of the genetic tool kit we have in common. In choanoflagellates, we’ve found genes that previously were believed only to exist in animals. It’s a confirmation of the idea that the genes come first, before their exploitation by organisms.”
The study concludes: “We have discovered in M. brevicollis the first RTK, to our knowledge, identified outside the metazoa. The architecture . . . resembles that of RTKs in sponges and humans and suggests the ability to receive and transduce signals. Thus, choanoflagellates express genes involved in animal development that are not found in other eukaryotes (complex organisms), and that may be linked to the origin of the metazoa.”
Do your homework and you'd realize there was no "prior to the big bang."
giving birth to the known universe via quantum mechanics is no more provable than appealing to a creator.
Except that quantum physics is falsifiable and has been tested.
Your faith is in science which is everchanging. years down the road you may find yourself in the same palce as those who espouse a geocentric universe.
Self-correction in light of new facts is a virtue of science, and the bane of religion.
In which scientific journal was the article about the entire universe popping into existence, and not an individual electron? Is that experiment repeatable?
No all evidence need be empirical.
Really - this conversation would benefit greatly by you doing less grandstanding and more background reading.
As I apologize for any disrespect towards your faith you may have inferred.
However in my "narrow" view of science things must be repeatable.
That's one form of evidence. But others exist.
In that vein God cannot be scientificly prove, nor would I presume to attempt to do that.
God lies outside the realm of science. Science can only deal with the natural. The supernatural is its own concern. :)
I can sense this discussion going nowhere so I will allow you the last word if you so choose, nevertheless the orgin of the universe is indeed a great mystery and should be assidiously pursued.
I only take the last word to say that here, you are bang on the money, and I hope we can converse again in good faith and mutual respect.
If anyone is interested they might start Why Steven Hawking's Cosmology Precludes a Creator
One does not need to know how something was formed in order to understand how it functions. An increase in technology has lead to these discoveries....not a belief in evolution. In fact, knowing the end result you're looking for will more often than not, cause one to overlook those things that will not support that end.
This is where, IMHO, science is biting their nose off to spite their face. They're allowing no room for anything that goes against their preconcieved notions.
The findings in this article place the metazoans or animals closer in relationship to the choanoflagellates than the fungi, as previously assumed.
(The title of the article you posted is a bit misleading as it makes an association with origin of life. The finding here is a missing link.)
Anyway, Sean Carroll has posited the "genetic toolkit" idea, something I've brought up on this forum on a number of occasions, and this study provides more evidence for that. It's not exactly a master plan, but the basic toolkit for the metazoans was developed during the evolution from single to multicellular organisms. This is in stark contrast to Darwinian gradualism, of course, but makes far more sense, overall.
Which is precisely the problem with creation science and ID theory.
But only one side uses a logical process to determine falsity without resorting to "it's magic! Look here in this book!"
To these people I say, you've still got a problem. The problem is that evolution, as a doctrine, is so overwhelmingly STUPID that, faced with a choice of wearing a sweatshirt with a scarlet letter A (Adulterer), F (Fornicator) or some such traditional device, or I (for IDIOT), you'd actually be better off sticking with one of the former choices because, as Clint Eastwood noted in The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly:
God hates IDIOTS, too!
The best illustration of how stupid evolutionism really is involves trying to become some totally new animal with new organs, a new basic plan for existence, and new requirements for integration between both old and new organs.
Take flying birds for example; suppose you aren't one, and you want to become one. You'll need a baker's dozen highly specialized systems, including wings, flight feathers, a specialized light bone structure, specialized flow-through design heart and lungs, specialized tail, specialized general balance parameters etc.
For starters, every one of these things would be antifunctional until the day on which the whole thing came together, so that the chances of evolving any of these things by any process resembling evolution (mutations plus selection) would amount to an infinitessimal, i.e. one divided by some gigantic number.
In probability theory, to compute the probability of two things happening at once, you multiply the probabilities together. That says that the likelihood of all these things ever happening, best case, is ten or twelve such infinitessimals multiplied together, i.e. a tenth or twelth-order infinitessimal. The whole history of the universe isn't long enough for that to happen once.
All of that was the best case. In real life, it's even worse than that. In real life, natural selection could not plausibly select for hoped-for functionality, which is what would be required in order to evolve flight feathers on something which could not fly apriori. In real life, all you'd ever get would some sort of a random walk around some starting point, rather than the unidircetional march towards a future requirement which evolution requires.
And the real killer, i.e. the thing which simply kills evolutionism dead, is the following consideration: In real life, assuming you were to somehow miraculously evolve the first feature you'd need to become a flying bird, then by the time another 10,000 generations rolled around and you evolved the second such reature, the first, having been disfunctional/antifunctional all the while, would have DE-EVOLVED and either disappeared altogether or become vestigial.
Now, it would be miraculous if, given all the above, some new kind of complex creature with new organs and a new basic plan for life had ever evolved ONCE.
Evolutionism, however (the Theory of Evolution) requires that this has happened countless billions of times, i.e. an essentially infinite number of absolutely zero probability events.
And, if you were starting to think that nothing could possibly be any stupider than believing in evolution despite all of the above (i.e. that the basic stupidity of evolutionism starting from 1980 or thereabouts could not possibly be improved upon), think again. Because there is zero evidence in the fossil record (despite the BS claims of talk.origins "crew" and others of their ilk) to support any sort of a theory involving macroevolution, and because the original conceptions of evolution are flatly refuted by developments in population genetics since the 1950's, the latest incarnation of this theory, Steve Gould and Niles Eldredge's "Punctuated Equilibrium or punc-eek" attempts to claim that these wholesale violations of probabilistic laws all occurred so suddenly as to never leave evidence in the fossil record, and that they all occurred amongst tiny groups of animals living in "peripheral" areas. That says that some velocirapter who wanted to be a bird got together with fifty of his friends and said:
Guys, we need flight feathers, and wings, and specialized bones, hearts, lungs, and tails, and we need em NOW; not two years from now. Everybody ready, all together now: OOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....
You could devise a new religion by taking the single stupidest doctrine from each of the existing religions, and it would not be as stupid as THAT.
But it gets even stupider.
Again, the original Darwinian vision of gradualistic evolution is flatly refuted by the fossil record (Darwinian evolution demanded that the vast bulk of ALL fossils be intermediates) and by the findings of population genetics, particularly the Haldane dilemma and the impossible time requirements for spreading genetic changes through any sizeable herd of animals.
Consider what Gould and other punk-eekers are saying. Punc-eek amounts to a claim that all meaningful evolutionary change takes place in peripheral areas, amongst tiny groups of animals which develop some genetic advantage, and then move out and overwhelm, outcompete, and replace the larger herds. They are claiming that this eliminates the need to spread genetic change through any sizeable herd of animals and, at the same time, is why we never find intermediate fossils (since there are never enough of these CHANGELINGS to leave fossil evidence).
Obvious problems with punctuated equilibria include, minimally:
1. It is a pure pseudoscience seeking to explain and actually be proved by a lack of evidence rather than by evidence (all the missing intermediate fossils). Similarly, Cotton Mather claimed that the fact that nobody had ever seen or heard a witch was proof they were there (if you could see or hear them, they wouldn't be witches...) The best example of that sort of logic in fact that there ever was was Michael O'Donahue's parody of the Connecticut Yankee (New York Yankee in King Arthur's Court) which showed Reggie looking for a low outside fastball and then getting beaned cold by a high inside one, the people feeling Reggie's wrist for pulse, and Reggie back in Camelot, where they had him bound hand and foot. Some guy was shouting "Damned if e ain't black from ead to foot, if that ain't witchcraft I never saw it!!!", everybody was yelling "Witchcraft Trial!, Witchcraft Trial!!", and they were building a scaffold. Reggie looks at King Arthur and says "Hey man, isn't that just a tad premature, I mean we haven't even had the TRIAL yet!", and Arthur replies "You don't seem to understand, son, the hanging IS the trial; if you survive that, that means you're a witch and we gotta burn ya!!!" Again, that's precisely the sort of logic which goes into Gould's variant of evolutionism, Punk-eek.2. PE amounts to a claim that inbreeding is the most major source of genetic advancement in the world. Apparently Steve Gould never saw Deliverance...
3. PE requires these tiny peripheral groups to conquer vastly larger groups of animals millions if not billions of times, which is like requiring Custer to win at the little Big Horn every day, for millions of years.
4. PE requires an eternal victory of animals specifically adapted to localized and parochial conditions over animals which are globally adapted, which never happens in real life.
5. For any number of reasons, you need a minimal population of any animal to be viable. This is before the tiny group even gets started in overwhelming the vast herds. A number of American species such as the heath hen became non-viable when their numbers were reduced to a few thousand; at that point, any stroke of bad luck at all, a hard winter, a skewed sex ratio in one generation, a disease of some sort, and it's all over. The heath hen was fine as long as it was spread out over the East coast of the U.S. The point at which it got penned into one of these "peripheral" areas which Gould and Eldredge see as the salvation for evolutionism, it was all over.
The sort of things noted in items 3 and 5 are generally referred to as the "gambler's problem", in this case, the problem facing the tiny group of "peripheral" animals being similar to that facing a gambler trying to beat the house in blackjack or roulette; the house could lose many hands of cards or rolls of the dice without flinching, and the globally-adapted species spread out over a continent could withstand just about anything short of a continental-scale catastrophe without going extinct, while two or three bad rolls of the dice will bankrupt the gambler, and any combination of two or three strokes of bad luck will wipe out the "peripheral" species. Gould's basic method of handling this problem is to ignore it.
And there's one other thing which should be obvious to anybody attempting to read through Gould and Eldridge's BS:
They are claiming that at certain times, amongst tiny groups of animals living in peripheral areas, a "speciation event(TM)" happens, and THEN the rest of it takes place. In other words, they are saying:
ASSUMING that Abracadabra-Shazaam(TM) happens, then the rest of the business proceeds as we have described in our scholarly discourse above!
Again, Gould and Eldridge require that the Abracadabra-Shazaam(TM) happen not just once, but countless billions of times, i.e. at least once for every kind of complex creature which has ever walked the Earth. They do not specify whether this amounts to the same Abracadabra-Shazaam each time, or a different kind of Abracadabra-Shazaam for each creature.
I ask you: How could anything be stupider or worse than that? What could possibly be worse than professing to believe in such a thing?
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