**Bush invokes executive privilege to keep Justice Department documents secret**

AP ^ | 12-13-01 | John Solomon

[Oldeconomybuyer]

06:57 PST WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush has invoked executive privilege for the first time to keep Congress from seeing documents of prosecutors' decision-making in cases ranging from decades-old Boston murders to the Clinton-era fund-raising probe, The Associated Press has learned.

[rdb3]

Then you don't believe in "Justice" or "The Rule of Law", you prefer "Politics".

First off, you do not have permission to tell me what I do or don't believe in. Learn how to punctuate correctly before you go popping off at the mouth about what someone believes in. If you want to know what I believe in, just ask. Never assume.

And you also can't see that's Exactly the way it was played by the last administration.

What I "see" is that is why we on the Right had our heads handed to us over impeachment. Ask yourself, how could we, who held the correct position on Clinton's behavior, find ourselves being raked over the coals when it was Clinton who was obviously guilty?

Answer: POLITICS.

We were speaking different languages. We took the pious road. They engaged in trench warfare. We played checkers. They played chess.

Sadly, we lost.

Why did we lose? Because we failed in the political game. Starr's office said one thing. Trent Lott said another. Tom DeLay gave his thoughts. J.C. Watts opined in his way. Result? Static. Nothing we said stuck.

Now let's look at the RATS. No matter who spoke, you heard the exact same refrains time and time again.

"This is just about sex!"

"This does not rise to the level of impeachment!"

"The Republicans are trying to overturn the results of an election!"

"This is a vast, right-wing conspiracy."

Result: The message, though flawed, hit home.

You can take these exact same refrains above and apply them to what would happen right now if the Bush administration went after Clinton at this time. This puts the media's favorite son on center stage as a sympathetic character. It gives Hitlary! all kinds of ammunition to launch her '04 Presidential campaign. This gives Terry MacAullife and James Carville fuel for fodder for the '02 elections.

Politically speaking, this is stupid!

Yes, I'm definitely interested in justice and the rule of law. But these two sometimes are not as powerful as the one thing most here fail to consider: The Court of Public Opinion. In order for the pursuit of justice to be sustained and achieved, public opinion must be on your side. Otherwise, you get swept out of office.

Don't yell "Touchdown!" at a baseball game, and don't bring a knife to a gunfight.

[flamefront]

Bush realizes that some action must occur and occur NOW to correct many wrongs,

So fire the Clintonista holdovers. He could do that. He isn't. Why?

[tberry]

"Every single person being held is being held on visa violations."

If it is just Visa violations, why weren't they arrested before the 9-11 attacks? We could and did know about them then just as we do now.

If it is just about visa violations, why is it just men that are being held? I'm sure women are also visa violators.

If it is just about visa violations, why are just young men being held? I'm sure there are older men who have violated their Visas.

If it is just about Visa violations, why are just Muslims being held? I'm sure there must be Visa violators from other religions.

The obvious answer is that Visa violations are just a cover so that King George in his royal wisdom can do what the h*ll he wants to do, legal or not.

Any more questions Slinkyspur?

[horsewhispersc]

Russia hears calls for nuclear buildup after US decision on ABM Foreign Affairs

Source: AFP

Published: 12/13

Posted on 12/13/01 6:51 AM Pacific by oxi-nato

Top Russian lawmakers said Moscow was free to stock up on nuclear warheads to Cold War-era levels following a US decision to scrap the 1972 ABM treaty in the face of Kremlin efforts to save the disarmament pact.

Does anyone like this since they sell weapons to our enemies?

[mancini]

Either that or he's hoping all the other news making issues going on will provide cover and keep this off the front page.

Yes! We are pawns in a game.

[Alberta's Child]

I understand your point, but I find it thoroughly unacceptable that someone who is as dumb as a bag of rocks has access to information that I do not have, especially when she has been elected to her position by a bunch of OJ jurors.

[vannrox]

Bush could fire all the Clinton Holdovers... - If he knew who all of them are. His actions must all add up to one end goal.


If they don't then he is just acting on emotion and it would wreck his term. No. He has plans and he is working the plan.


There appears to be a calculated and methodic manner that he moves in his term of office. Every action is planned out, and every task is deligated to someone whom he can trust, and whom he has a high degree of confidence that they will succeed. Where the Clintons were always in an emotional and reactive mode, we now have a President who is an Adult.


He is, and I believe this, a Libertarian. He is moving causiously and slowly.


He is following a plan that has been formulated for years, and he is accomplishing it step by step. Certainly, actions by some Democrats and Terrorists have upset his timeline.


But no matter. Look and see what he is doing and how he is doing it. You know that I am right.

[exodus]

************************

To: RedBloodedAmerican

Never show your hand until the right time.

"...This seems more in keeping with this administration's policies and character
than the supposition that President Bush is purposefully covering up Clinton's crimes.
It would be terrible for people like Waxman or Conyers to have access to that information.
They would do their best to assure that Clinton would never go to trial..."
# 35 by theophilusscribe
************************

I'm just a citizen, not a Congressman,
but I know that Clinton lied to the Grand Jury.
I know that he lied to Congress.
I know that he lied in court during the Paula Jones trial.
I know that he committed campaign finance violations,
and I know that he gave military secrets
to the Chinese government in return for money.
That evidence for those charges is irrefutable.

Just how long does it take to gather evidence
that has been in the possession of the prosecutors for years?

Clinton will never be tried for his crimes.

[steve50]

" you have no evidence of that"

If I had a dime for every time a klintoonista said that I would be a rich man.

Remember the phrase "there's abosolutely no evidence of any wrong doing here and I need to get back to the people's work". And then he goes out and obstructs,evades,destroys evidence and lies. But since this is GW I'm sure we have nothing to worry about.

[DallasDeb]

He's hiding sumptin methinks! I wanna know!

More likely he doesn't want the demoncrats PO'd and cause a ruckus during this crisis period.

[Donald Stone]

A portion of the answer to your question is to be found by calling Dan Burton's Oversight Committee & Reform Committee in Washington D.C. and asking if they will provide you with copies of the contract and payments made to a certain law firm that was hired as legal counsel to the Oversight Committee involving the Clinton/Gore campaign finance fraud.

And also possibly the legal counsel for the RNC.

[Native American Female Vet]

"They're covering each others' tracks.

Yep, first the Presidential papers now this. The Dems are going to have a much easier time pushing their agenda and hiding what they do when they get back into the White House

[liberallarry]

I'm always suspicious of government secrecy. It's the enemy of freedom and accountability. I recognize that secrecy is sometimes justified ... but it's too often used to conceal incompetence and criminality.

The government should always be strongly challanged and forced to justify it's use and this challange should be continuous.

[exodus]

"...Maxine Waters is a public official, put in power by the voters in her district.
She has a real need for access to information in order to do her job.
If she abuses that sacred trust, impeach and procecute her.
# 119 by exodus
************************

To: exodus
I understand your point,
but I find it thoroughly unacceptable
that someone who is as dumb as a bag of rocks
has access to information that I do not have,
especially when she has been elected to her position
by a bunch of OJ jurors.
# 126 by Alberta's Child
************************

You're going to be very suprised
when O.J. finally proves his innocence.

I think Maxine's missing a few brain cells too,
but there are those who'll tell you that I don't carry a full load either.

She's in office.
She must have access to information,
or our Republican system is gone forever.

[mrsmith]

"Were the committee seeking to pierce the shield of privilege between the president and his council I would be agreeing with you. However, the case here is a third party is keeping information from the client. "

Per my reply above #117:
"Fourth, that neither the committees nor House has a right to call on the Head of a Department, who and whose papers were under the President alone; but that the committee should instruct their chairman to move the House to address the President. (20 5 Annals of Congress (1796), 773.)'"

I don't see why your interpretation isn't covered by Washington's decision.

[horsewhispersc]

"He is, and I believe this, a Libertarian. He is moving causiously and slowly"

Ya gotta be kiddin me! lol ..... First he's as conservative as his dad (which means he isn't conservative) and secondly he is not moving cautiously or slowly on anything!

[exodus]

"...Top Russian lawmakers said Moscow was free to stock up on nuclear warheads to Cold War-era levels following a US decision to scrap the 1972 ABM treaty in the face of Kremlin efforts to save the disarmament pact..."
************************

To: exodus
Does anyone like this since they sell weapons to our enemies?
# 124 by horsewhispersc
************************

I like Bush's decision to scrap the ABM Treaty.
Russia was already selling weapons,
including the nuclear ones, to our enemies.

They couldn't keep up with us when they were communists
without monetary and technological support from America.

They still can't. China can't, either.
If Russia decides to see us as an enemy,
I have no problem with Congress declaring war
to give us the option of a first strike.

[Peach]

How do you know which Boston murder case is being "covered up" and what makes you think it's a cover-up?

[Alberta's Child]

The only reason Waters (or anyone in Congress, for that matter) needs access to that information is so that she can give the heads-up to any of her financial supporters who are about to become targets of an FBI investigation.

Mark my words here -- that Boston murder investigation from a few decades ago, in which the FBI helped a gangster frame an innocent person for a string of murders, has the fingerprints of a well-known Massachussetts crime family all over it. Providing Congress with confidential information about a case involving any of those drunken slobs is idiotic.

[theophilusscribe]

Just how long does it take to gather evidence that has been in the possession of the prosecutors for years?

Well, it has taken a great deal longer because Clinton's cronies in Congress have blocked all legal proceedings and have protected him with their prior knowledge of the evidence gathered against him.

Exodus, most days I am as skeptical and frustrated as you are. I would hate to think that Clinton would forever escape unpunished for his crimes. I know that is what looks like is going to happen now. I guess I am just willing to give the Bush administration a chance to do something. It does take time—more than we are comfortable with. I wish Clinton were already locked away, along with his awful wife, and his entire criminal administration. But those are huge fish to fry. The bigger the fish—the more time it needs in the pan.

Ok, that's a sorry analogy, but the point is, I don't think (and I admit that maybe this is wishful thinking) that Clinton is going to get away scott free. I don't know what they'll get him on, or when, or how, but he won't get away. Even now, new evidence is coming out about his neglect over the Sudan/bin Laden situation . . . Know what I mean?