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To: ExiledInTaiwan
These hardened ideological stances need to stop, a dialogue needs to begin. But even here on FR this has been a hard thing to do.

Dialogue is not possible in my opinion. I also, think that it never was possible. There are individuals who have tried to have that dialogue in the holy land, and in the US and the same roadblocks appear without any compromise.

It begins with the basic propositions. The Arabs have defined the holy land as a place that no Jew can have a say in. The Jews have had the physical boundaries of their self definitions codified for thousands of years. There is no dialogue in that. There is no compromise in that. There is only war.

What you term injustice, can be turned around and said as easily in return to the Arabs. That is why the majority of Jews do not take it seiously. They view themselves every much as a victim as do the Arabs. How many intractible disputes can you name in this situation?

The Arabs and Jews both claim Jerusalem and the Temple mount for their own-

Both claim the cave of the patriarchs (cave of Mach Pelah) for their own-

Both claim the tomb of Rachel and the tomb of Joseph for their own-

The Arabs want the same right of return as Jews do to all of Israel proper. There are numerous other sites and issues over which niether will negotiate. The Jews will not give up military control for fear that the Arabs would bar them from their most holy sites, and they cannot let the Arabs jump enmass to Israel and vote. The Arabs teach that the Jews have no place on those sites. Period. Where is there negotiability in this? Where is there compromise?

Finally there is much to support the argument that the Arabs had only used any negotiation as a ruse to weaken Israel and the Jews militarily. They pursued Oslo only to set up a situation where they could arm themselves and then look for any pretect to begin armed assaults on civilians. They knew that the Jews would respond militarily and use this to further advantage in the court of world opinion.

IMHO, your desire for that dialogue is noble but flawed. As of my writing today, the Jews have just written off Arafat and are preparing for the disarming of the entire Arab population of Judea and Samaria (the west bank). Furthermore, there is tremendous support for this action in the US and in other quarters world wide. I have maintained that the only peace possible is through total annexation of Judea and Samaria by Israel and disarmament of Arab resistance. This will force them to talk because they are incapable of shooting and bombing.

70 posted on 12/13/2001 8:51:52 AM PST by Nachum
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To: Nachum
You should not paint all Muslims as incapable of a peaceful coexistence. There are too many times in history when they controlled the region and were quite open to let people of all faiths worship there. I quoted the sources before, just too lazy to do it again. Just peruse "Jerusalem: Sacred City of Mankind" by Teddy Kollek & Moshe Pearlman, reprinted 1975, p. 162/5. Same can be said for South Spain of the Moors, and Palestine, pre-Zionist movement era.

Finally, just want to say, solution to our world and its mess is always an individual choice. We try our best in the political realm, but must make the spiritual battle on individual grounds. This world has never been perfect and I dare say, never will be. But some individuals, in the midst of this morass, have achieved a level of perfection(divine or spiritual) most of us can only dream of.

As for politics, I believe Socrates said no honest man can go into politics, for if you are honest and try to stay in politics, you will be killed.

71 posted on 12/14/2001 3:40:16 AM PST by ExiledInTaiwan
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