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Ron Paul: Can Freedom be Exchanged for Security?
Ron Paul ^ | 26 November 2001 | Hon. Ron Paul, M.D.

Posted on 11/27/2001 6:58:59 AM PST by Zviadist

It's easy for elected officials in Washington to tell the American people that the government will do whatever it takes to defeat terrorism. Such assurances inevitably are followed by proposals either to restrict the constitutional liberties of the American people or spend vast sums from the federal treasury. The history of the 20th century shows that the Constitution is violated most often by Congress during times of crisis; accordingly, most of our worst unconstitutional agencies and programs began during the two world wars and the Depression.

Ironically, the Constitution itself was conceived in a time of great crisis. The founders intended its provision to place inviolable restrictions on what the federal government could do even in times of great distress. America must guard against current calls for government to violate the Constitution- break the law- in the name of law enforcement.

The"anti-terrorism" legislation recently passed by Congress demonstrates how well-meaning politicians make shortsighted mistakes in a rush to respond to a crisis. Most of its provisions were never carefully studied by Congress, nor was sufficient time taken to debate the bill despite its importance. No testimony was heard from privacy experts or others from fields outside of law enforcement. Normal congressional committee and hearing processes were suspended. In fact, the final version of the bill was not made available to members before the vote! These political games should not be tolerated by the American public, especially when precious freedoms are at stake.

Almost all of the new laws focus on American citizens rather than potential foreign terrorists. For example, the definition of "terrorism" for federal criminal purposes has been greatly expanded; you now may be considered a terrorist if you belong to a pro-constitution group, a citizens militia, or various pro-life organizations. Legitimate protest against the government could place you (and tens of thousands of other Americans) under federal surveillance. Similarly, your internet use can be monitored without your knowledge, and your internet provider can be forced to hand over user information to law enforcement without a warrant or subpoena.

The bill also greatly expands the use of traditional surveillance tools, including wiretaps, search warrants, and subpoenas. Probable cause standards for these tools are relaxed or even eliminated in some circumstances; warrants become easier to obtain and can be executed without your knowledge; and wiretaps can be placed on you without a court order. In fact, the FBI and CIA now can tap phones or computers nationwide without even demonstrating that a particular phone or computer is being used by a criminal suspect.

The biggest problem with these new law enforcement powers is that they bear little relationship to fighting terrorism. Surveillance powers are greatly expanded, while checks and balances on government are greatly reduced. Most of the provisions have been sought after by domestic law enforcement agencies for years, not to fight terrorism, but rather to increase their police power over the American people. There is no evidence that our previously-held civil liberties posed a barrier to the effective tracking or prosecution of terrorists. The federal government has made no showing that it failed to detect or prevent the recent terrorist strikes because of the civil liberties that will be compromised by this new legislation.

In his speech to the joint session of Congress following the September 11th attacks, President Bush reminded all of us that the United States outlasted and defeated Soviet totalitarianism in the last century. The numerous internal problems in the former Soviet Union- its centralized economic planning and lack of free markets, its repression of human liberty, its excessive militarization- all led to its inevitable collapse. We must be vigilant to resist the rush toward ever-increasing state control of our society, so that our own government does not become a greater threat to our freedoms than any foreign terrorist.


TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: ronpaullist
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To: annalex
According to you China is correct to crush their nation. Sovereignty be damned because all that matters is that China needs to punish a "criminal."
161 posted on 11/28/2001 6:25:58 AM PST by Demidog
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To: biblewonk
The police officer and his son is a strange story and is rare where I live. I can leave my front door unlocked at night, my neighborhood is very safe.

The son of the police officer, Chris, was part of the burglary that my Nephew took part in. Chris being 18 at the time faced felony charges as an adult. His father, the police officer, was able to have charges dismissed against his son. The other three all had house detention for six weeks and probation for another six months.

The father and son are the only two that live in their home. His house was/is(?) the place where the kids would crash and do drugs, mostly marijuana, propane inhalation, cocaine, and ecstacy. The son tried his best not to consume his merchandise and really only had a dependency on marijuana. The father in many ways was a facilitator for his sons problems and took personal blame for his conduct. It will take a long time for this young man to grow up, because he never has had the opportunity to grow up. He is 21 now and still at home.

162 posted on 11/28/2001 7:17:51 AM PST by scottiewottie
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To: NewAmsterdam
Ik was daar op zending voor De Kerk van Jesus Christus van de Heiligen der Laatste Daagen. Ik wonde in Nederland alleen een en twintig maanden. 't blijkt dat ik nog niet mij nederlands kwijt gerakt. Nogmaals, tot siens!
163 posted on 11/28/2001 7:38:11 AM PST by scottiewottie
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To: Demidog
Re-read #158. It is rather short. It begins:

"If a true violation of rights occurred..."

164 posted on 11/28/2001 8:32:56 AM PST by annalex
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To: Zviadist
Try Tom Tancredo(R-Colorado)and Jim Traficant(I-Ohio).I am from the notorious 9th CD in California(Lee-Idiot)and I will be sending my campaign contributions to at least Ron Paul.I am not sure of Traficant's status,as he is under the gun from the IRS,after he successfully fought to put the burden of proof in tax disputes on the IRS.But there are few who compare to Ron Paul,the only man I have seen yet to reference letters of marque and reprisal,as provided for in the Constitution,as the action to be taken against the al-Queda network.
http://www.house.gov/paul/freedomprinciples.htm
165 posted on 11/28/2001 9:37:39 AM PST by kennyo
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To: annalex
Doesn't matter. Remember, soveriegnty is statism. Thus all you need to do is to claim the person you're after is a criminal. Voila! Justification for war. It's all very libertarian doncha know. Borders don't mean a thing.
166 posted on 11/28/2001 9:40:56 AM PST by Demidog
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To: Demidog
The issue is not who would claim what. Individual rights are determinative in defining criminality. Borders don't change individual rights. The individual trumps the national. Libertarianism 101.
167 posted on 11/28/2001 10:12:07 AM PST by annalex
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To: annalex
That's all fine and dandy. However, the national border and the government and their authority to act on behalf of the citizen within their border is at issue.

In your world, China has the right to commit an act of aggression to apprehend the "criminal" being "harbored" within the borders of the weaker country.

Might makes right in your world but that's libertarian and not statism.

168 posted on 11/28/2001 10:25:05 AM PST by Demidog
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To: Demidog
China has such right if he is truly a criminal, otherwise it doesn't. As to the abuses, a strong country can abuse a weak one under any philosophy of government.
169 posted on 11/28/2001 11:26:35 AM PST by annalex
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To: annalex
It doesn't matter if he is truly a criminal. Once you allow your self that power, criminal is by your definition. Which makes me wonder if you would have supported the U.S. invading canada to find draft dodgers.
170 posted on 11/28/2001 11:33:27 AM PST by Demidog
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To: Demidog
Of course it matters. What I am saying is that it is the only thing that matters. If criminality is determined by any objective mechanism, which typically is a local court, sovereignty ceases to matter. Since China doesn't have a credible court system, China can't, in natural law, punish anyone in China, let alone elsewhere.

Yes, I probably would support extradiction of draft dodgers when draft existed in America at wartime. Invasion of Canada is another story, since such military enterprise would not be in proportion to the magnitude of the offence.

171 posted on 11/28/2001 11:53:24 AM PST by annalex
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To: annalex
Invasion of Canada is another story, since such military enterprise would not be in proportion to the magnitude of the offence.

Canada refused to extradite. There are even countries that refuse to extradite murderers because they don't believe in the death penalty. What do you do?

172 posted on 11/28/2001 12:03:37 PM PST by Demidog
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Comment #173 Removed by Moderator

To: gjenkins
I voted GOP when they didn't do a damn thing to act like they deserved to be in the majority. When they acted like they still were the minority in the house and senate. And now they are the minority in the senate once again.

I voted GOP when alot of GOP folks were too lazy to get off their duffs and go to the polls and vote.

174 posted on 11/28/2001 3:09:36 PM PST by nancetc
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To: nancetc
I had no doubt that you have, do, and will vote GOP.
175 posted on 11/28/2001 4:03:33 PM PST by gjenkins
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To: Demidog
Canada refused to extradite

I would, of course, do nothing beside maybe a diplomatic demarche of some kind, for the reason I already stated: that the response must be proportionate to the offence. Same with extradictions on the grounds of death penalty. None of that are sovereignty disputes though. Canada doesn't say: we do with your draft dodgers whatever we please bacause we are Canada. They say: we think it is an individual's right to dodge draft. That is an honest dispute about individual rights.

If you read some comments in Defense of Liberty. National Self-Determination: An International Political Lie you'd understand my position better because there are nuances in it that I think, you refuse to hear, thinking that I obfuscate. This is what I think:

A government has a duty to protects the rights of its citizens anywhere. But it may not make laws outside of its jurisdiction, nor may it invalidate local laws if they respect individual rights. I think the confusion is between individual rights and statutory law. Rights are universal; law is local.
In other words, we should distinguish between sovereignty as an excuse for oppression and local jurisdiction. I have nothing against the latter.
176 posted on 11/28/2001 6:27:38 PM PST by annalex
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To: tex-oma
What's incredible about China's courts?

China criminalizes political dissent; it even criminalizes a meditation movement. I doubt that they have defense attorneys that are not court-appointed. In that legal environment I would not find even a straightforward criminal conviction credible.

177 posted on 11/28/2001 6:31:17 PM PST by annalex
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To: annalex
None of that are sovereignty disputes though.

Osama's apparent crime is murder (if there is any evidence against him at all).

Now you explain to me what the difference is when Canada refuses to turn over a murderer and Afghanistan refuses.

Afghanistan refused because we didn't offer any evidence. Canada refuses because they think the penalty is too harsh. Your double standard is starting to become quite apparent.

178 posted on 11/28/2001 10:43:34 PM PST by Demidog
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To: Demidog
It's the same standard. The Taliban government was presented enough to at least justify apprehending Osama for trial. If they did so, our invasion of Afghanistan would become problematic. Similarly, if Canada refuses to put a criminal who committed a crime on our soil on trial, we could use force in proportion to the magnitude of the alleged crime. As those options are weighed, there is nothing to prevent us from also considering the overall ability of the local government (Taliban or Canada) to administer justice. In the case of Canada, we see evidence of respect for individual rights; in the case of the Taliban we see oppression all around.
179 posted on 11/29/2001 5:43:22 AM PST by annalex
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To: annalex
The Taliban government was presented enough to at least justify apprehending Osama for trial.

Bzzzzzzt. Nope.

180 posted on 11/29/2001 7:57:18 AM PST by Demidog
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