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Rhetorical Questions to myself and other Catholic Apologists here

Posted on 11/26/2001 2:49:05 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM

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To: arthurus
All members of my family were baptized by immersion when we left the Catholic Church. There is nothing in the church that greater signifies our identification with our Lord in his death, burial and resurrection than being immersed.
81 posted on 11/26/2001 7:17:59 AM PST by joathome
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To: proud2bRC
I have begun to avoid the Catholic threads like the plague. I used to work in a Catholic bookstore and part of my job was to read a number of the books in the store so I could answer questions and point people in the right direction. Sometimes, I'd get someone in the store who'd be hellbent on converting me away from my faith. I never had to get nasty but I'll tell you it wasn't a pleasant event.

Being on a Catholic-bashing thread is sorta like when you are watching the Jerry Springer show. You just know that somebody is gonna sucker punch somebody at any minute.

82 posted on 11/26/2001 7:19:36 AM PST by Slyfox
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To: proud2bRC
We may refer to what we engage in here as "apologetics" and at least some of the non-Catholic posters are genuinely involved in evangelism but they share some common attributes. However, this forum, IMHO, is not particularly conducive to either one.

Our spiritual beliefs are not readily amenable to "debate" or the simple power of logic and discussion. Neither is an internet conversation the ideal medium for evangelism. Much of the power of personal communication does not translate across a CRT and the experiential aspects of spirituality are not often shared here with each other. Instead there are attempts to logically argue the distinguishing points of one's religious preference to another and about the only "example" of how one really leads their life that becomes apparent is how one conducts themselves in the process of the debate. I find none of this particularly powerful for evangelism or apologetics.

After initially participating in those type of discussions, I have essentially taken to answering questions for people that have honest ones and to posting things to share with other Catholics.

I have learned quite a bit here through some of these threads but nothing that would change my beliefs or faith.

83 posted on 11/26/2001 7:20:45 AM PST by johniegrad
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To: joathome
My reference to "the calendar" was a little tongue-in-cheek. The Julian calendar is used by the "Old Calendarists" and the Gregorian calendar is used by the "New Calendarists." That pushes Christmas out 13 days for the "Old Calendarists." It's an advantage if you're a "new" and you marry an "old," TWO CHRISTMAS...er would that be TWO CHRISTMAI.
84 posted on 11/26/2001 7:21:34 AM PST by dsmatuska
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To: johniegrad
In fact, I tend not to participate in such threads because sharing my beliefs generally devolves into accusations of "Catholic basing".

Arguments generally involve a stalemate. No one is impressed by arguments; I find that people are only truly impressed with sharing how the Spirit of God has worked in my life, and then open to hearing the gospel.

85 posted on 11/26/2001 7:24:34 AM PST by joathome
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To: AKA Elena
Yeah, I suppose those British have great reason to call Americans bigots since we celebrate our independence every 4th of July. :)
86 posted on 11/26/2001 7:26:06 AM PST by joathome
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To: johniegrad
Your #83 is well said.

I have been involved in only two instances where a poster without faith became a Christian, at least in part, because of his involvement in one or more FR threads. In each instance I did what I could "from afar" to help them find a church in their local area to help them continue on their new journey.

Interestingly enough, however, both of those instances came about, not in any of the so-called Christian threads, but in the Philosophy/Theology threads. Nor did we talk about the Christian faith until they began asking questions about it.

I agree with you that such instances are rare, but I do believe if one is willing to meet people "where they are" all things are possible with God.

Peace.

87 posted on 11/26/2001 7:29:12 AM PST by logos
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To: joathome
In fact, I tend not to participate in such threads because sharing my beliefs generally devolves into accusations of "Catholic basing".

Please forgive me if my posts appear to be of a "bashing" nature.
88 posted on 11/26/2001 7:31:56 AM PST by dsmatuska
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To: proud2bRC
Hey!

American by birth, Catholic by the grace of God! Every day I thank Him for the Church. What a joy.

I dont consider myself an apologist but I like to throw my 2 cents in once in awhile. I figure that people walked away from Jesus, rejecting His message, so they certainly are not going to listen to me. I often wonder if its worth talking about too, but I've decided it is. I've had a few people convert and join the Church, what a great feeling.

I've learned alot too, especially from catholic FReepers here.

Best wishes, Cap'n.

89 posted on 11/26/2001 7:36:36 AM PST by Cap'n Crunch
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To: GreatOne
My favorite thing to do for people I meet who are open to Catholicism is to recommend Scott Hahn books/tapes. He was one of the most virulently anti-Catholic ministers who, after attempting to debunk Cathlicism through lots of study, saw the Truth and converted.

I'm sorry to have to disagree with you. But Oh Really?? He was virulently anti-Catholic? Do you know what he did that was so virulently anti-catholic? Did he write books denouncing the Catholic Church? Preach sermons against Catholic beliefs, target Catholics for evangelism? Or was he simply a protestant who thought Catholics were wrong (and threw away his grandma's rosery after she died). I've heard of Scott Hahn and frankly I think he is full of hot air. I think that he describes himself as having been anti-catholic in order to sale tapes.

There is a RC apologist that I do respect and that is Father Mitch Pacwa (spelling?). If someone wanted to study the RC position, I would recommend him.

For people who are strong in their non-Catholic Chrisitan faiths, they have probably been strongly indocrinated into the "Catholics are evil" way of thinking (and I don't mean "evil" literally).

I think that the average protestant does not think about catholics at all, or thinks of them as just another denomination.

90 posted on 11/26/2001 7:40:15 AM PST by Sci Fi Guy
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To: packrat01
Does anyone have conversion statistics?

I have no statistics but I have heard that there has been very strong growth of evangelicals in the hispanic community both in this country and latin America.

Also gotta ask yourselves; How many people do you drive AWAY from the catholic church with your apologetics? How many solidify their views (against catholicism) based on what they read in the FReeper war posts?

I don't think that's a problem, unless you encounter a jack chick type. And for the record every faith has its share of jack chick types.

91 posted on 11/26/2001 7:53:40 AM PST by Sci Fi Guy
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To: proud2bRC
If a "Freeper Wars" thread (you know the type, starts out as a thread of interest to Catholic freepers, then turns into the standard anti-Catholic posts

Is that a fair characterization? Actually isn't it a little manipulative to state it in such a way as to sound like the one who is unfairly attacked? Don't we post these things for one reason only, and that is to start discussion knowing that we will have peers and opponents? This sounds like a creatively worded whine to me.

92 posted on 11/26/2001 8:08:16 AM PST by biblewonk
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To: logos
Since all things are possible with God, how do you account for religions other than the one you believe in?
93 posted on 11/26/2001 8:09:38 AM PST by stuartcr
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To: proud2bRC
I'm not anti-catholic although every Catholic on FR thinks so. I'm just PROTESTant. We had a revolution. We left you behind an you just don't get it. It's like OBL has to label those who don't want to go back to the 7th century as sinners. Revolutions only work one way ... forward. Going back to the repression of the Pope makes no sense to a thinking Protestant. Try and see things from our sandals for once. I have yet to hear a Catholic on FR who likes to argue over the Protestant/Catholic divide even make an attempt to understand Protestantism. You cannot say the same about a thinking Protestant for we have ALL been there and done that. Protestants ARE Catholics. We just had a revolution.
94 posted on 11/26/2001 8:12:35 AM PST by mercy
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To: AmericaUnited
EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANITY HAS EXPLODED in the last 30 years..

Unfortunately not in the US. Most of the growth in the USA has been Christians leaving churches control by liberal heretics for Bible believing churches. The number of Adult conversions has remained very small.

I say this to hopefully motivate us to think about evangelism. And to actually try to reach the lost. Instead of assuming that people in the pews means that we are reaching our society.

95 posted on 11/26/2001 8:13:01 AM PST by Sci Fi Guy
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To: joathome
well, Jesus made it pretty clear that he chose only men to lead.

That is true, but that is not doctrinaire. Jesus chose a tax gatherer, a zealot, and fishermen. Did I miss anything? He chose no priests. Should we take that as doctrinaire? How about the lack of vets? Everybody Jesus chose was a Jew. Should only Jews be leaders? Is that doctrinaire?

I'll respond to the question about female elders after I get some review time at home.

Shalom.

96 posted on 11/26/2001 8:21:09 AM PST by ArGee
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To: Psalm 73
(I'm at work and don't have my Bible Concordance with me, so I'm shy of scripture refs)

Yeah, me too. I think you're at the point where Paul says he does not allow a woman to have authority over a man. But this is the same Paul that says there is neither male nor female in Christ.

It's a tough situation because the Scriptural references allow both interpretations depending on where you look. Then you have to apply your "intelligence" to rectify the apparent contradiction. One viewpoint uses rectifies them one way, another rectifies them another way.

I will say this, so far I have not found a church with a woman in leadership that stands by the Bible in every other way. That either makes me wrong or it shows how hard it is to be pure in anything. I'm open to the idea that I may be wrong. Right now I still believe women can be in leadership in a church.

Shalom.

97 posted on 11/26/2001 8:24:44 AM PST by ArGee
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To: packrat01
If it ain't in the Bible, it's a cult.

Please provide the appropriate citations from Scripture to back up this statement.

98 posted on 11/26/2001 8:26:19 AM PST by Poohbah
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To: AmericaUnited
You've got to be kidding.

Nope!

You really believe the Evangelical churches tickle the listeners ears??

Don't get me started on the sermons I've heard in the Evangelical churches that have nothing to do with service to G-d and everything to do with how to get G-d to give you what you want out of life.

You get a much more "watered down", "easy listening" gospel at any Catholic church than at any Evangelical church.

I'm going to guess that I've been to many more churches than you have, both evangelical and liturgical. I could be wrong, but I've heard true Gospel out of both and watered-down mush out of both. It isn't the label that makes the people love G-d.

20 minute quickie masses versus 2-3 hour services twice on Sundays, etc.

Boy, I hope you're not one of those who measures the spiritual power of a service by how long it is. Those are soooooo boring they make me sick.

Much stricter list of ?do?s and don?ts?. Need I go on?

Which has the stricter list and is that good or bad?

Your God and my God are very different. Your God will go out with a whimper.

Who are you assuming "my" G-d is? There is only one G-d and only one Son by whose name we may be saved. There is only one Holy Spirit who reveals the truth to all men. Do you know of others?

Shalom.

99 posted on 11/26/2001 8:29:11 AM PST by ArGee
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To: stuartcr
Since all things are possible with God, how do you account for religions other than the one you believe in?

Your question is either simplistic or just poorly worded. The faith I have is Christian; the religion in which I practice my faith happens to be Presbyterian, although I was raised in the Baptist religion, and over the years have worshipped and expressed my faith in the houses of numerous religions, including Catholic.

Too, since we're talking about the possibilities within God, why you would expect a mere human to account for those possibilities, or for God's - shall we say indulgences toward His wayward creatures - is beyond me.

Or did you mean to ask something else entirely?

100 posted on 11/26/2001 9:34:34 AM PST by logos
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