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Peace groups find anti-war message is hard to sell
The Seattle Times ^ | Saturday, November 24, 2001 | Stuart Eskenazi

Posted on 11/24/2001 8:52:54 AM PST by TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig

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1 posted on 11/24/2001 8:52:54 AM PST by TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig
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To: big ern
BTTT
2 posted on 11/24/2001 8:55:14 AM PST by Fiddlstix
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To: big ern
While consequences of the bombing have been different than peace activists imagined, they are not backing down. The values behind their beliefs, they say, still ring true: violence eventually begets more violence and love always overcomes hate.

And they are just counting the days until the next WTO meeting so they can hit the streets with rocks and bottles to do battle with the police.

3 posted on 11/24/2001 8:57:23 AM PST by 07055
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To: big ern
Just like it would have been immoral to not help Western Europe beat back the Nazi's, it would be immoral to do nothing after thousands of innocent civilians were killed.

These people are NOT the thoughtful, gentle, people depicted by this article. They are immoral, spineless sluggards who do not deserve to live under the protection of the United States of America!

4 posted on 11/24/2001 9:04:42 AM PST by the_Watchman
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To: big ern
I saw some of these losers while driving to my mom's for Thanksgiving. Bumper stickers and signs that said, "Justice not War" and other stupid phrases.

And the PETA people were out with their "Thankgiving is no holiday for turkeys" and 40 million turkeys die for your dinner" signs.

I got them waving at me then gave them the finger. But then again I'm a hater.

5 posted on 11/24/2001 9:05:33 AM PST by TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig
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To: the_Watchman
I agree, but what are we going to do about it? Just have to defeat their ideas every chance we get and right now it aint to hard to do.
6 posted on 11/24/2001 9:07:23 AM PST by TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig
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To: the_Watchman
Further, people who would stand wringing their hands while their own children were being killed in their beds have a screw loose! They have no moral ground to stand upon. They are immoral!
7 posted on 11/24/2001 9:09:21 AM PST by the_Watchman
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To: big ern
Marchers struggled to find appropriate songs to sing during the procession from one Capitol Hill cathedral to another. But the peace-song playlist was of golden oldies, stuck in the Vietnam era.

So marchers began to sing "America the Beautiful," Boonstra recalled. And that troubled one of the marchers.

As a (seemingly) rare non-left-wing folkie, I'd say this is major. One of leftist credos is that their ability to find the right song to argue with is evidence they are correct. The fact that they are struggling to do so is a major blow to their faith.

8 posted on 11/24/2001 9:10:48 AM PST by Celtjew Libertarian
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To: Libertina
consider this an FYI and a RSVP for next Sunday's meeting.
9 posted on 11/24/2001 9:14:00 AM PST by TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig
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To: big ern
They need to be put in talk show situations and asked at what point they would defend themselves and others. At any point, if they agree to raise a finger in defense, then they are hypocrites.

On the other hand, if they stand by their "principles" and agree to do nothing while innocent children are slain, then they show themselves for the gutless, stupid people they are. Ask them how it would be "moral" to not defend a child!?!?

How would they intend to stop a holocaust?

10 posted on 11/24/2001 9:16:28 AM PST by the_Watchman
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To: big ern
the title is very accurate.

liberal are having more difficulty in raising money for their stupid ideas. people are beginning to get fed up with taxes. now they are resorting to 'fund raising' to gather more funds to take away more freedoms and impose even further on our economy.

they just don't get it.

11 posted on 11/24/2001 9:16:58 AM PST by mlocher
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To: big ern
Be a damn shame if some war-mongering gangbangers mistook them for moving in on their drug turf.
12 posted on 11/24/2001 9:17:52 AM PST by Skywalk
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To: big ern
The values behind their beliefs, they say, still ring true: violence eventually begets more violence and love always overcomes hate.

Someone's been watching *way* too much TV...

13 posted on 11/24/2001 9:22:33 AM PST by Dan Day
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To: the_Watchman
I read an article by a (possibly a former) Quaker in Soldier of Fortune (want real on the ground reports from overseas by the people ducking the lead read that mag.) that more than half of the draft age Quakers enlisted after Dec. 7th 1941 because even pacifist knew you couldn't hug Hitler and Tojo enough to change their minds.

My father inlaw is in town for the holiday and I asked him the other night about how his glider landing went on D-day, as he was in the 101st airborne.

He is pretty liberal in his day to day thoughts and voting pattern, but if you bring up certain things like peaceniks he gets pissed and starts venting.

His war lasted four days. He left basic training and went straight over on a Liberty ship as a replacement.

landed successfully in the glider and then they spent several days pushing forward hoping the guys on the beach would catch up.

He said he did a couple of days in the hedge rows and his lt. stood up to check out where they were after crossing a body of water and got his head shot off.

They were getting shelled by 88s for a few days and he got shell shocked. He just stood up and started walking around like there was no war going on.

Somebody grabbed him and they shipped him to medivac area and gave him a "blue beetle". That is a sedative.

It had no effect so they shipped him to a bigger medical area and gave him two more blue beetles.

He slept for 24 hrs. and when he woke up the guy next to him said everytime a shell went off he about jumped out of his bed.

They were going to ship him back to his unit but the senior doc said he would go fully nuts and probably couldn't recognize the difference between friend and foe when the shelling started again and wouldn't be responsible for who he shot. In other words they couldn't be sure he wouldn't shoot the guy next to him so he got shipped back to a supply area.

He said it took 5 years after the war was over to stop being angry all the time.

He also recounted how every night (during his short time in the hedgerows) they kept sending him across to the German side to find out what they were up to. He couldn't figure out how they didn't hear his heart beating he was so close to them.

14 posted on 11/24/2001 9:29:55 AM PST by TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig
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To: Celtjew Libertarian
One of leftist credos is that their ability to find the right song to argue with is evidence they are correct.
The venerable Tom Lehrer, despite being a liberal, had some pretty funny songs back in the day. One that comes to mind in this context is "The Folk Song Army." Here's one of the lines from the song:
Remember the War Against Franco,
That's the kind where each of us belongs.
Though he may have won all the battles,
We had all the good songs!

15 posted on 11/24/2001 9:32:01 AM PST by Gordian Blade
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To: big ern
I'm all for love overcoming hate and peace instead of war.

But war was declared on us. It was actually done officially by bin Laden and his al Qeada buddies in 1996 when they issued a fatwa calling for the death of America and its allies--civilian and military. We took the peaceful approach, ignoring this decree, offering aid, etc., but to no avail. So what other choice did we have?

As a Christian I do believe in beating swords into plow-shares, turning the other cheek, loving your enemies, that blessed are the peace makers, etc.. So in a way I do agree with the peace groups. But we live in a dangerous world where some people are psychotic. So I believe we had no choice and are doing the right thing.

16 posted on 11/24/2001 10:08:23 AM PST by garycooper
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To: Gordian Blade
We had all the good songs!

I think it was one of Peter, Paul, & Mary who said something to the effect of: "Let the other side have all the right reasons, we will write the songs". Can't remember exactly who, or the exact quote. Obviously said during the '60s.

Personally, "Praise the Lord" and "Pass the ammunition" while you're at it.

17 posted on 11/24/2001 10:09:30 AM PST by Calvin Locke
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

To: big ern
"violence eventually begets more violence "

On September 11, 5,000 people were brutally murdered by the single largest act of violence this country has ever endured.

As a result of this violent act, the US is bombing the SH*T out of the Taliban. Yep, violence begat violence, all right. The Taliban deserves what they get.

19 posted on 11/24/2001 10:24:59 AM PST by cake_crumb
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To: big ern
I read an article by a (possibly a former) Quaker in Soldier of Fortune (want real on the ground reports from overseas by the people ducking the lead read that mag.) that more than half of the draft age Quakers enlisted after Dec. 7th 1941 because even pacifist knew you couldn't hug Hitler and Tojo enough to change their minds.

My father-in-law was a Quaker (or from one of the related pacifist groups), who broke with his family and enlisted in the Navy, after Pearl Harbor.

I've also read -- and this was a while ago -- about a Quaker who enlisted as an unarmed medic. He received the Medal of Honor for rescuing injured Marines from the front lines of one of the island battles against the Japanese; but he never carried a weapon.

20 posted on 11/24/2001 10:28:43 AM PST by Celtjew Libertarian
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