JetBlue Pilot Saw American Airlines Crash

Reuters ^ | Patrick Markey

[jammer]

I saw that, but it looked to me like an automobile axle when the wheel is removed--black with grease, heat, etc. I am certainly no expert on automobiles or airplanes, but I assume that there is plenty rotation in that joint, like an axle.

[Cold Heat]

Great pics, thanks...The aft attachment point looks worrysome and appears to be cut by something. (just a observation by a joe blow)

[gopgirl]

Was the smoke coming from the plane before the tail fell off?

[Cold Heat]

This appears to be carbon fiber and it would be blackish appearing in its natural state prior to fire I believe.

[vrwc54]

Here is a link to a forum where there is a discussion of the tail fin separating from the fusilage photo. Most of these people are quite knowledgable with thoughtful comments: Photo

There are other interesting discussions on the forum worth a look at, too.

[copycat]

No-one has explained the eyewitness reports, one from a trained pilot, of smoke, fire, and explosions. The wake turbulance theory, to my ears, sounds like the most plausible explanation tendered by those who are seeking to eliminate terrorism at any cost.

I do not understand the rush to eliminate one possible truth from this. Someone on this thread has postulated that fuel or hydrolic fluid could be mistaken for a smoking plane by a trained pilot.

Were it terrorism, the knowledge of such could be used as the impetus to deport all illegal ME's from our shores. If we allow wake turbulance to be accepted as the official cause, those who perpetrated this act would STILL BE WORKING at our airports.

Happy skies...

[cc2k]

That look is "normal" for a fractured piece of a carbon fiber (graphite) composite.

The material is laminated, just like fiberglass if you've ever worked with that. The difference is that the "cloth" is made of fibers of graphite (the same black stuff that's in pencils). When this material is fractured, the graphite at the end of the exposed fibers can blacken everything and make it look like it's burnt, or like someone has rubbed charcoal all over it.

Graphite fibers are very strong in tensile strength (pulling on them), but very brittle to bending and twisting. They are either woven into cloth or pressed into mats where the fibers point in all different directions in a flat plane (kind of like the tyvek fibers in one of those tyvek shipping envelopes). These mats or pieces of woven cloth like material are then held together with a resin, either polyester or some kind plastic, or epoxy. The resulting piece is extremely light and strong and is supposed to have good fatigue characteristics. They are sensitive to overloads, either being pinched severely, or having a bending force applied from the wrong direction with too much force. Unlike metals, they fracture when overloaded. They don't bend.

[MilleniumBug]

I liked the missile theory. Now that's some serious turbulence and a lot more effective than training Big Bird to fly into the engine.

[rwfromkansas]

hmmmm

[rwfromkansas]

link to records? I did find it interesting that a previous "turbulence" incident for this aircraft was not in the FAA database online until 3 days ago....and this incident supposedly occurred in 1994. Sorry, that is odd to me....but, I would like to see the records you are talking about. If there are records showing past tail problems, I will definitely begin to lean toward that.

[LurkedLongEnough]

Thanks for the link - good pictures.

[chemainus]

This plane can't dump fuel.

[FreePaul]

Also the plane was supposedly dumping fuel at the time.

The fuel dumping theory was discredited early on. This type of aircraft can't dump fuel in flight.

[safisoft]

When the Captain tried to make the drastic maneuvers necessary to regain a semblance of control, the French computer overrode him.

Uh, the "French Computer" was made in the good ole USA. Your friend is clearly not SMART enough to decide what aircraft he should bid.

[Jhensy]

I have no conspiracy tendencies whatsoever, but you "rational explanation" guys...please tell me- Why WASN'T it a frickin' bomb???? What makes you not even consider it? I'm no aviation engineer, but gee whiz, wouldn't a baggage hold blast explain everything easily? This has happened many times before, Lockerbie, for one!!!! Why not now? Because the flight recorder had no sounds of a blast? Is that it?

[vrwc54]

Shhhh.....don't mention the B word. A concussion type bomb makes sense to me, but I'm just an ignoramous.

[6ppc]

The "Charred" looking - to me a non-expert observer - base at the attachment (detachment) place of the tail fin?

According to reports, the attachment flange is made of composite (I think carbon fiber and fiberglass). Looks to me like the "charred" portion is actually the color of the composite material. I've come to the conclusion that this was a genuine structural failure rather than sabotage. The real question is whether it is a materials fatigue problem or a maintenance problem.

[DreamWeaver]

..........of course, the enemies of Israel seem to not appreciate the presence of the mossad's media outlet for some unknown reason.

What has Israel or Israel's mossad got to do with Debka may I ask ??? If it is true that Debka is the mossad's media outlet, that is news to me.

Question :Why is it that if we should question anything that has to do with Israel or "their media outlet" we are labeled an enemy of Israel as you just did with me.???

I and many others question what our govt in America tells us, does that make us an enemy of America ??? Please address this question. I really would like to hear your explanation !

[mad_as_he$$]

Let's see Debka reported that OBL was dead two weeks ago.

They also reported that we had suffered 12 dead in the raids on Omars house.

I thought of those right of the top of my head - no research.

Also, it doesn't really do you or Frrep any good to call anyone who disagrees with you a Jew hater. But that seems to be the tatic employed by many here in recent times. I thought this place was about the free exchange of ideas......guess I was wrong.

FWIW imo God is a woman and has a very weird sense of humor.