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1 posted on 11/13/2001 5:57:06 AM PST by Axion
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To: Axion
They are saying alot, by not saying much. What a joke. I don't know if this was terrorism or not, but by the way they are acting and what they are not saying and how they are not confident or definite, I really think they are scared poopless to say what really happened.
47 posted on 11/13/2001 6:19:19 AM PST by WestPoint90
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To: Axion

55 posted on 11/13/2001 6:21:35 AM PST by cantfindagoodscreenname
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To: Axion
I am weighing the credibility of this report with the report by AP yesterday quoting an unnamed Whitehouse source saying that there was an explosion on board. Right now if the choice is birds or bombs, I'm leaning towards bombs.
56 posted on 11/13/2001 6:21:43 AM PST by Biblebelter
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To: Axion
Yesterday, right after hearing about the crash I told people at the office that if I had to make a guess I would say this was probably a birdstrike. My guess was based primarily on the eyewitness accounts that a wing or engine had exploded. There aren't many things that'll make a wing explode, but FOD will destroy an engine pretty quickly.

Using just a little common sense (because that's all I have to spare :) ), I assumed that there couldn't have been FOD in an engine when it was on the ground or it would never have been able to take off which means that it would have had to intake something in the air. Since it was right after takeoff, the plane was still at a low altitude where birds are common and since Rockaway is coastal, there is even a greater concentration of birds.

My experience with birdstrikes is limited to military aircraft where the pilot can eject, but in a majority of birdstrikes the plane is destroyed.

58 posted on 11/13/2001 6:22:38 AM PST by Equality 7-2521
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To: Axion
I wonder if the Sierra Club will sue American Airlines for violating the Endangered Species Act or something. "We clearly need to close down Kennedy Airport, as it is unacceptably close to a vital wetland bird sanctuary."
59 posted on 11/13/2001 6:23:09 AM PST by jpl
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To: Axion
Did the birds have long beards?? I find this a hard "coincidence" to digest. It's *possible,* but I will never believe with 100% certainty that this was an accident. But if the Gov. can spin it as an accident successfully, I believe they will.
62 posted on 11/13/2001 6:24:45 AM PST by ClayHellion
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To: Axion
I swear it was not me...
64 posted on 11/13/2001 6:25:26 AM PST by fod
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To: Axion
It's time for Dubya and Ashcroft going to round up and deport the birds.
65 posted on 11/13/2001 6:25:33 AM PST by steve-b
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To: Axion
Birds have feeling too, ya know.
66 posted on 11/13/2001 6:26:00 AM PST by Labyrinthos
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To: Axion
May sound funny but it's definitely possible. I have a friend who was a test engineer at Pratt & Whitney, which is in my back yard. Back in the 70's and 80's, they used to throw live seagulls (1. because they are plentiful and 2. because that is what the planes are most likely to encounter) into the engines while running them on the test stands.

Well, they ran into problems with the DEP and the animal rights nazi's over their use of live seagulls in the engine tests. That combined with some internal grumblings on the havoc the seagulls would wreak on the engines during the test probably helped end the practice. The nuts, bolts, rocks, shards of metal, etc. that the seagulls ingested does a number on the precision machined innards of a jet engine.

So, Pratt began testing with cleaned chicken carcasses. Afterall, a bird test is a bird test, right? Sure, weight and body size were about the same. But chickens tend to fill themselves up with grains and cracked corn which their little stomachs do a very good job of digesting, thus making them very easy to puree. Obviously, a jet isn't going to encounter a flock of chickens flying throught the air. But that aside, a far more real world test would be the continued use of seagulls, stomach contents and all. If the engine can't survive a seagull test in controlled test conditions, what makes one think it will perform any better in real world situations.

I know these were GE engines, I would guess their situation is very much similar.

74 posted on 11/13/2001 6:28:56 AM PST by LoneGOPinCT
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To: Axion
The problem is that this is in the WSJ.

If it was Debka, News Max or World Net Daily, the whackos posting on this thread would believe it.

The possibility of ingestion of foreign objects is derided, yet yesterday, there were people seriously discussing the possibility that this plane was brought down by a person or persons with a hand held rifle.

Anything far fetched or conspiratorial is seriously entertained, while the mundane is immediately rejected. I guess that's half the fun of being in junior high.

75 posted on 11/13/2001 6:29:20 AM PST by marshmallow
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To: Axion
Maybe it wasn't a bird that struck the engine.

Here's a shooting scenario to consider, the intention being to cause a catostrophic failure of an engine on take off leading to a crash.

I would envision a (hypothetical) runway sniper using a van soundproofed on the inside with cheap foam mattresses. The exact shooting position would be determined in advance so that a shooting chair and rifle rest could be set up inside the van in advance. The shot could be taken through a removed small rear door window.

The shooter would drive to his pre-determined road side parking place, get in the chair, and use his 12 or 20 power off-the-shelf scope to observe the jets as they turned into the take off position. Seeing the big twin engine jet with the American Airlines logo, he would have plenty of time to settle in for his one and only shot. He would pick a twin engine, to maximize the chance of causing a crash after shooting one engine.

Since he would not be placing a bomb on a specific plane, but merely shooting the first large twin engine American Airlines jet to turn his way, that would explain why the jet to the DomRep was hit. It was just the luck of the draw. (This is just a hypothesis!!)

As the jet races down the runway straight towards him, he holds his crosshairs just above the center of the 12 foot diameter engine. As the wheels come off the tarmac, he fires. Even a .30 caliber slug through the engine turbines could cause the massive failure he seeks, a .50 caliber would ensure it.

If the jet lands right on him, he screams "Allah Akbar" with a big grin on his face, and goes to collect his 72 virgins right away.

If the jet crashes beyond him or not at all, he gets back into his driver's seat, and checks his map for the route to Logan, Dulles, O'hare or Miami International.

*******************************

So why do I go to the trouble of pitching this hypothesis? Because even if there was no sniper at the end of the runway at JFK today, there might be next week. The national guardsmen standing around looking scary in the terminals doing nothing but providing pseudo-security PR, should instead be patrolling the airport runway approaches with their M-16A2s, looking for my hypothetical but entirely possible (even likely) snipers.

What are they doing in the terminals anyway? Looking for hidden boxcutters with their Superman X-ray eyes?

76 posted on 11/13/2001 6:30:01 AM PST by Travis McGee
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To: Axion
Birds can be dangerous! Especially if you ride a roller coaster and you are Fabio!
picture
78 posted on 11/13/2001 6:30:17 AM PST by StockAyatollah
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To: Axion
When Pig Ladens group takes credit for blowing up this plane, someones gonna be eating crow!
80 posted on 11/13/2001 6:30:57 AM PST by concerned about politics
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To: Axion
Anyone else find it strange that the author of the article referred to "investigators" in the first paragraph and thereafter simply referred to "these people" repeatedly? I don't think this article is based on much at this point anyway, or he would have been more solid in naming sources of his theory. It may prove right in the end, but right now I find this a flimsy article at best.
83 posted on 11/13/2001 6:32:33 AM PST by WomanofStandard
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To: Axion
Breaking News: Wall Street Journal tells a bird brain theory

Investigators today proposed the theory that bird brains are responsible for the demise of flight 587. "We had expected that most birds had already migrated," Mr Hawk said, "but new terrorist act caused numerous birds to have their passports held, while we investigated their country of origin." The birds were sucked into the engines, causing both engines to fail and fall off of the plane. "It is so simple," he added "you don't neeed an eagle eye to see how this happened." As he flipped the bird theory out for discussion, FR readers immediately discredited the theory, resulting in Mr. Hawk not having any feathers in his cap.

87 posted on 11/13/2001 6:34:14 AM PST by rit
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To: Axion
The engine burned internally

Isn't that what engines are supposed to do?

96 posted on 11/13/2001 6:37:31 AM PST by brewcrew
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To: Axion
Just keep making those flight plans for the holidays, folks...
111 posted on 11/13/2001 6:47:01 AM PST by DanDDynamo
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To: Axion
Deport all birds immediately.
114 posted on 11/13/2001 6:48:00 AM PST by Leroy S. Mort
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To: Axion
Why were the birds on strike?
119 posted on 11/13/2001 6:49:15 AM PST by 4CJ
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