Investigators Find Signs Birdstrike May Have Caused Crash of Flight 587

Wall Street Journal ^ | November 13, 2001 | SCOTT MCCARTNEY

[LTCJ]

And if you believe they actually go fly those engines after the test, without re-smoothing/replacing the turbine blades, I got some land to sell you.

The issue isn't whether or not an engine(s) would be damaged but that the damage would result in a loss of the airframe. And the leading edge of the tail looks pretty good, having avoided all that feathered fury.

There is a big difference between taking a bird(s) into the engine at 200-some-odd knots on takeoff and meeting your Thanksgiving dinner at 600 knots face-on.

The worst that you should reasonably expect is a hurried but orderly shutdown based on EVM and other readings. Even if both engines were hit, the crew should have had enough time to throttle back and declare an emergency.

The most likely mechanical explanation would seem to be a rotor burst which FODed the other engine and the wing structure. But I've got to see a lot more evidence. Even then, Lucy's got a lot of 'splaning to do as to why something that, by reg, is supposed to exceed 1x10e-9 happened within 30 days of 11 September.

The way things are running, as for that land, I'll give you $20 of Monopoly money for Park Place with all your hotels.

[anniegetyourgun]

I'm negative? ROFL!!! I'll leave you to go about "seeking truth" through fabrication, RJ.....

[Gritty]

it is EASY for a flock of birds to bring down a plane

This is very true, especially if they are BIG birds, and this is the season for large size bird migrations. A few years ago a KC135 (also a large aircraft) in Alaska crashed on takeoff just for this reason killing all on board.

However, it may be an engine problem of another sort - a 'thrust reverser' on one engine which deployed inadvertently in flight. This would produce a huge and instantaneous application of torque sufficient to shear off the tail and engine(s). This event has also happened before - with the uncontrollable loss of the aircraft. However, this event would not explain any evidence of FOD - especially recognizeable bird FOD - in the engine(s), if indeed that is the case as the article implies. It is quite likely one would find some physical evidence of the birds or impact in the engine or on (unburned) parts on the airframe if it were a large bird or flock of birds that were struck.

[concerned about politics]

It's easier to explane how a terrorist could have done this than it is to explane how birds tore the plane into neat little pieces.
Hmmmm.....

[Doctor Stochastic]

Geese Foul Airplane Engine

[EggsAckley]

Even if both engines were hit, the crew should have had enough time to
throttle back and declare an emergency.

Eggsackley! THAT is why we need to hear the cockpit tape.
IF it were a flock of birds, wouldn't the pilots notice that
and make mention of it BEFORE the engines fell off?

[catpuppy]

Glad you reposted that. It is absolutely true. Birdstrikes are such a threat in some areas that airfields employ professional falconers to keep flocks of birds away from the runways. I have seen this at USAF bases in Europe.

[Myrnick]

Beau'ifuwl ploomij.

[Greenpointer]

I posted that. Here it is:



And the article

Is here.

[anniegetyourgun]

Well, at least it's more fun to try to explain with stories of intrigue and gov't cover-ups, eh? I gotta get out of here and leave these people to their fun. As someone earlier pointed out, I'm killing their joy.

[fourdeuce82d]

Obviously this kind of thing never happens, the government officials must be lying, and we'll never know the real truth.

How am I doing? Do I have this down yet?

perfect. After all, PLANES DON'T CRASH INTO QUEENS!
(actual statement offered as evidence of terrorism by Freeper)

[Keith]

"yeah and then the remnant of the birds are spewed out with such force that they knock the tail off before the engine has time to fall.

no, then the turbine blade are damaged enough to begin spinning out and slicing off pieces of the plane...like the stabilizer. Anyway, no one is a bigger conspiracy theorist than me, but I think this one smells like bird strike.

[concerned about politics]

IF it were a flock of birds, wouldn't the pilots notice that and make mention of it BEFORE the engines fell off?

Good point. The recoreder would say something like #$^%$&, look at all the %$#@&**^%$$## birds!

What about the dumping fuel story? That failed too.

[newsperson999]

ok...so lets say the engine fell off and hit the tail...so you have the engine and the tail in the some spot at the same time. The engine is more heavy then the tail and the tail would glid more meaning the engine would hit the ground well before the tail. Yet they found the tail in the bay and both engines on land meaning the tail hit the ground before the engine.

[texasbluebell]

Sounds to me like it could have been an over rotation of the plane at takeoff.

My husband said something similar to this. Actually, he also thinks it could be bird strike, but he said too that an engine could have been, well, he explained it to me as when the washing machine starts to get way out of line, with an unbalanced load of clothes. So I guess that's what you're saying too.

[EggsAckley]

no, then the turbine blade are damaged enough to begin spinning out and slicing off pieces of the plane...like the stabilizer.

Um, the tail fell off FIRST.

[Howlin]

The tail section falling where it did. And when it did.

[bluecollarman]

Well, make a joke if you want. Anyone familiar with aircraft could bring one down without a bomb. Duct tape would hold an object for a while and eventually give way, jet engines are pretty fragile. I do not have any problem with the theory that part of the engine sliced off a section of the tail.

[catpuppy]

what about the fact that the tail section fell of before the engine?

I cannot explain or even verify that or much of anything else about this crash. Nor can anyone at this point. We hire aviation experts to investigate aircraft crashes, determine the causes and prescribe preventative measures. Why don't we let them earn their pay? Are we really capable of accurate second guessing only 24 hours after the crash?

[agincourt1415]

I saw them remove the Tail (Vertical Stab) from Jamacia Bay - Now that's really puzzeling.