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1 posted on 11/09/2001 1:23:19 PM PST by TopQuark
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To: TopQuark
Ohhhh shut the fugg up... Multiculturalism is a direct result of 30yrs of massive immigration from 3rd world cultures.
2 posted on 11/09/2001 1:30:38 PM PST by VinnyTex
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To: TopQuark
Irish, Italians, Jews, Vietnamese.

Most of those you used for your analogy come (came) from Judeo-Christian backgrounds. If Buchanan is emphasizing the inherent differences which exist between Islam and Western beliefs then I think he is correct. Therefore, included in the groups you noted above would be all those who have experienced the oppression of Islam, ex. Hindus, Buddhists, Lebanese Christians, Copts, etc. In other words, his observations are correct as related to Islamicism.

4 posted on 11/09/2001 1:39:20 PM PST by Lent
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To: TopQuark
"By advocating prejudice Pat Buchanan misses the boat. This includes the boat that brought his Irish forefathers to the American shores. "

Get real. Pat is not talking about people who came here legally, went through immigration, populated an empty country, learned the language, joined our armies, became citizens and brought their children up to be good Americans first.

Go ask Sharon what he thinks of open borders and unrestricted immigration. Is he prejudiced?

5 posted on 11/09/2001 1:44:07 PM PST by ex-snook
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To: TopQuark
Are there not some peoples, from radically different countries and cultures, who are far more difficult to assimilate in Western societies than others?

I guess his comments last week about the Jews on Wall Street should be interpreted that "some people assimilate too well" into American society.

You can't have it both ways, Pat.

7 posted on 11/09/2001 1:55:08 PM PST by 11th Earl of Mar
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To: TopQuark
Well amigo the point you've missed is that the boat carrying Pat's Irish ancestors was full of people coming here to ASSIMILATE whereas most of todays illegals are here to COLONIZE as well as attach themselves to our welfare system. See www.americanpatrol.org to see what kind of results this system of immigration has created.
8 posted on 11/09/2001 1:55:49 PM PST by american spirit
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To: TopQuark
Bravo. Excellent essay.

I would like to add that multiculturalism is almost a religion now. The U.S. govt. promotes pluralism as almost a god, and all religions, all truth claims, and all cultural practices are deemed equally valid and true. Did you hear Bush recently - "God bless America" - which god would that be? God is Islam, Jesus Christ and all other gods are deemed equally valid. This can't be - the various conceptions of God contradict each other. Of course, this is relativism and is hogwash. Nevertheless, I wanted to vomit at that service at the National Cathedral when an imam got up to speak.

Of course, any sane thinking person knows that not all ideas and truth claims are equally valid as logic and the law of non-contradiction do not allow it.

10 posted on 11/09/2001 2:01:18 PM PST by exmarine
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To: TopQuark
Pat Buchanan is irrelevant. He influences nothing, save his 14 perpetually livid sychophants -- most of whom post on this forum.
12 posted on 11/09/2001 2:03:21 PM PST by M. Thatcher
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To: TopQuark
--- to some intrinsic inability of some peoples.

Pat didn't say anything about "intrinsic inability".

He did talk about "radically different countries and cultures" that make immigrant adjustment and assimilation into our culture more difficult.

That is NOT "intrinsic inability".

Go take your false accusations of racism and bigotry elsewhere.

13 posted on 11/09/2001 2:03:37 PM PST by Willie Green
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To: TopQuark
Pat Buchanan is both wrong and factually incorrect, however, to attribute these facts --- as disturbing as they are --- to some intrinsic inability of some peoples. Not original either; this has been said so many times before --- about Irish, Italians, Jews, Vietnamese. And, time after time, this position has been proven wrong.

If you insist on attacking Buchanan, at least attack what he said, not what you thought he said. If you read the quote from Buchanan in the thread, to which your statement refers, he did not suggest an intrinsic inability in some peoples, but an inability in our Society to as easily assimilate them. That idea has not been disproven, "time after time." Indeed the evidence of its validity is all around you. Open your eyes.

There are, of course, Irish, Italians and Jews, who fit in very well with the American mainstream, with which they are fully immersed. There are also Irish, Italian and Jewish neighborhoods in larger cities, where those who do not fit in so easily remain. If you wanted to establish an index, you would find that all groups do not assimilate with the same ease, as evidenced by the greater percentage of some groups that do not really assimilate at all.

And in the above, we are talking about Caucasian immigrants from a European background. The further you get from the basic backgrounds that helped define America, the greater the problem will be.

And you do not refute these problems by pointing to people at the top of the intelligence scale, who do very well indeed, and are able to use material success to protect themselves from some of the problems in adjustment that others have. (Private schools can adjust to the cultural idiosyncrasies, whether rooted in innate traits or social environment, a lot easier than can the public.) And to return to the point that Pat actually made, our ability to assimilate them; we don't have to worry if they live on large lots, and privately educate their children. But it is not the same with the larger groups now pouring in from the Third World.

It has become something of a fashion, lately, to bash Pat. And while, I have to distance myself from his views on World Trade, and from his opposition to the War to liberate Kuwait, I find this very unfortunate. Pat still has a lot to add on our side of the general ideological debate, even if he occasionally strays.

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site

22 posted on 11/09/2001 2:38:40 PM PST by Ohioan
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To: TopQuark
1,067 illegal alien potential terrorists from all over the world walked across the border in the backcountry of California today... and they will again tomorrow, and the day after, and the day after that.

The Immigration and Naturalization Service (I&NS) reports 389,427 illegal aliens were caught crossing the border from Mexico into southern CA in fiscal year 1999.

These are apprehensions, NOT total entries. Therefore, the total entries into California each year may be 500% higher (2,373,975) using fiscal year 1998's 474,795 apprehensions as a 20% rate of apprehension, or the total entries into California each year may be 1000% higher (4,747,950) using the same 474,795 figure as a 10% rate of apprehension. These California total entry estimates are based on the I&NS's own official numbers. The true numbers may be even higher. The apprehension figures declined from 1998 to 1999 because of an accounting change, not because of a real decrease in illegal immigration. After 1998, if the same illegal alien is caught crossing the border 25 times in a fiscal year, this fact is now recorded as only one crossing attempt apprehension. Illegal immigration is actually increasing not declining, and in 2000 and 2001 is occurring in even higher numbers in Arizona.

23 posted on 11/09/2001 2:39:54 PM PST by Terrorista Nada
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To: TopQuark
"Throughout our history, the immigrants have been even more grateful and proud to be American than those born here. They will not fail, for instance, to cast their votes on an election night. In preparation for the citizenship exam, they have been told and have taken to heart that to vote is their civic duty. In most cases, these people have paid dearly for their freedom and take their citizenship seriously --- in contrast to some of the people you know who, having been born here, take freedoms for granted and cast their votes if the weather is nice."

Typical romanticized b.s. view of immigrants held by the immigration enthusiasts. Note the also typical put-down of native born Americans these jerks always feel compelled to offer in contrast.

So the author blames the ascendancy of multiculturalism for the fact that many immigrants have no loyalty toward this country---indeed, actually despise it. Well, its going to be a long, slow process to turn back the multiculturalism tide; it may not even be possible at this point. So now we're in a real jam. It will be poetic justice if a lot of immigration enthusiasts get blown up by a terrorist suitcase nuke.

26 posted on 11/09/2001 3:03:49 PM PST by uscit
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To: TopQuark
It is not a question of race, but of culture. I don't think Pat or anyone else would argue that there are those who are biologically incapable of assimilating. And indeed, no one's cultural background entirely precludes their assimilation. But many of those from Muslim countries do seem to be less inclined to assimilate than Christian or Jewish -- or Buddhist or Confucian -- immigrants. Pro-immigrationists speak as if they assume that we are somehow honor bound to take in anyone who wants to come here or can get here. I'd say that we have to draw lines and set limits and I have no trouble with that.

The stupid, weak, misled Americans argument doesn't support the proposition you want to advance. I would say, fine, close down the borders and let's educate these Americans and make something of them. In other words, that argument loses you more support than it could possibly win you. If we aren't as smart or as educated or as strong willed as we ought to be, the answer is not and should not be to simply replace us all with some new stock, but to remedy our deficiencies.

28 posted on 11/09/2001 3:19:08 PM PST by x
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To: TopQuark
I'm no Buchanan fan; but the fact is, members of different cultures vary widely in their willingness and perhaps even ability to assimilate to a new culture, even as many indigenous peoples were and are seriously unable to integrate input from contact with outside cultures.

It is not racist to recognize this. It is plain, mere reality. To deny it is pathological, not the reverse. No less an authority than Thomas Sowell has written extensively on this. (If you don't know Thomas Sowell you need to go home, now, and educate yourself.)

This is not inconsistent with the spread of multi-culti-BS in the American elite. They go hand-in-hand. Both sides of the problem combine to make it a truly critical issue.

32 posted on 11/09/2001 5:45:33 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: TopQuark
GO PAT GO!!!
38 posted on 11/09/2001 9:56:51 PM PST by Greg Weston
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To: TopQuark; sonofliberty2
What a bunch of crap! Shame on you for stating that conservative hero Patrick J. Buchanan is a racist when you know very well that he is anything but. After all, his excellent hand picked VP nominee on the Reform Party ticket was a black woman by the name of Ezola Foster. Buchanan a racist for advocating the restoration of an America first immigration policy which prevents the entry into our country of terrorists and secessionists? Not hardly.
39 posted on 11/10/2001 6:52:24 PM PST by rightwing2
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To: TopQuark
"By advocating prejudice Pat Buchanan misses the boat."

Hey Newbie...where the heck has Pat Buchanan "advocated prejudice"?! There may be a lot of things Pat and I don't see eye-to-eye on, but his desire to see immigrants properly-assimilated into the American Way of Life is certainly not one of our differences. You spew yer incendiary rhetoric fer what purpose anyway?! Lady Thatcher's right in saying that Buchanan's no longer a factor in any politcally-significant way...so why do you go trying to start up the GoPatGo Wars?!

Pat did what he did and it cost him dearly, in both philosophical pertinance and career-wise...I say let him live his life without knuckleheads trying--again--to make him out to be the Hitler-lovin' Racist he never ever was!!

SHEEEESH...MUD

47 posted on 11/12/2001 12:44:40 PM PST by Mudboy Slim
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To: TopQuark
having read a handfull of buchanan's articles over the last week, i guess i had better hop on the boat and head back to europe and leave the united states to the native americans who initially called this land theirs.
50 posted on 11/12/2001 12:52:36 PM PST by mlocher
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To: TopQuark
You write well.

Had you ever read Pat before you would understand that hes already said that all before. Your failure to understand and interpret is not his failure.

Heres a towel, dry those ears off and listen 'stead of flapping the gums...

57 posted on 11/12/2001 1:38:45 PM PST by gnarledmaw
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To: TopQuark
Ole Pat, gone the way of all ex's, the TV lights have done him in. A wanna be who will never be.
72 posted on 11/13/2001 5:22:52 AM PST by gulfcoast6
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To: TopQuark
The problem with recent immigrants --- whether to U.S. or France or England (read about a sheik from Egypt who a few years ago was given refuge in Great Britain and now wants to fly Islamic flags over 10 Downing Street) --- this problem is indeed new.

Does this make a bit of sense to anyone else??

73 posted on 11/13/2001 5:27:09 AM PST by Verax
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