FBI Considers Torture As Suspects Stay Silent

The Times (UK) ^ | 10-22-2001 | Damian Whitworth

[Texas Gal]

shall we complain if enemies take Americans into custody and torture them for information? [if we have also tortured]
We don't complain, we KILL them.
Ever know of any enemy that hasn't? Hey the nazi's used machine guns as well, should we not use those?
Point is they are both common in WAR.
And the Nazis put naked Jews into "showers" and killed them en masse with poisonous gas. The Japanese who held our soldiers captive in WWII starved them and tortured them in various ways. Are you saying we should resort to whatever horrible thing our enemies resort to? We cannot demand humane treatment for captured Americans and give inhumane treatment to captured foreigners. If we torture, we relinquish whatever moral authority we have, and whatever advantage that moral authority gives to our nation in the eyes of the world.
"It is indeed probable that more harm and misery have been caused by men determined to use coercions to stamp out a moral evil than by men intent on doing evil.--F.A. Hayek

[Texaggie79]

Are you saying we should resort to whatever horrible thing our enemies resort to?

No but there are certain things that are done in war that ARE called for. Killing jews had nothing to do with warfare, any type of torture and mistreatment of enemy prisoners for punishment or revenge is wrong.

[Amore]

"NO MEN OF HONOR OR HIGH MORAL PRINCIPLE WOULD COUNTENANCE TORTURE. PERIOD"

Nonsense. And putting it in all caps doesn't make that statement any less nonsensical. But then, I'm only a woman, so perhaps you think my views don't count.

[VRWC_Member428]

Rightwing Conspiratoral: "NO MEN OF HONOR OR HIGH MORAL PRINCIPLE WOULD COUNTENANCE TORTURE. PERIOD"

Amore: Nonsense.

Well then, name somebody in history of high moral calliber that would condone torture. Mother Teresa? George Washington? Jesus Christ?

---

Separate thought:

It's become clear to me that it is the threat of future terrorist actions that makes people want to engage in torture. It's emotionally driven. And what is that emotion? Fear. What are some synonyms for fear? Anxiety...firight...dread...horror... TERROR?

Yes, terror. Terrorists work through fear. If they had the capability to kill a huge number of us, they would have used that method first, while our guard was still down. But they don't have such a method. Therefore, their primary weapon is instilling terror in the minds of their enemy. Unfortunately, there are people being overcome with fear. As a result, we have people calling for compromises to rights and principles. Not just torture, but things like national ID cards, and the banning of high calliber weapons (secifically, 50BMG) The terrorists know that they cannot directly destroy us. But they know that when people are scared, they start calling for extreme measures. In effect, we have people beginning to actually want curtails on freedom. And if this happens, the terrorists have won. Thus, the people themselves have become unwitting terrorist weapons.

By no means am I calling for complacency. We all should be more aware of what is going on around us, and the fact that more Americans are arming themselves is a step in the right direction. If something seems wrong, either let somebody know, or calmly remove yourself from the situation. Just don't start screaming the next time you see somebody spill some coffemate at your local coffee house.

[dodger]

Apart from your whinging peroratory, I merely noted the term of art is 'elicitation' (not torture) nor have I advocated murder in this phase ....

[Scott from the Left Coast]

LOL -- I've not heard of that one! Unique local color, you might call that. The term "torture" raises a lot of issues with people, the word is a pejorative, and I think many people think of that term without really knowing what is being discussed. There's too much Hollywood involved in what comes to people's minds when that term is used.

To better describe the methods, it is more accurate to say that you place the subject in an uncomfortable situation -- psychologically more than physically. What works is more the concern in the mind of the subject about what you might do -- not what is actually done, uncomfortable though that may be.

I said before that the methods of torture that is in people's minds is likely not very accurate to what really occurs in this more aggressive form of questioning. I don't think many (or anyone really) would agree that the "dark ages" methods are acceptable or, for that matter, effective. Now that block of ice...

[Amore]

This very thread shows that this is an issue upon which reasonable people can disagree. I repeat: Your implication that everyone here who disagrees with you is without honor or high moral principle is nonsense, to put it mildly. I for one, resent the aspersion, and I'm sure others here do as well.

[VRWC_Member428]

I repeat:

I repeat: Name somebody known for their honor and high moral calliber who would condone torture.

[Amore]

"I repeat: Name somebody known for their honor and high moral calliber [sic] who would condone torture."

I told you. But, o.k., fine, I'll tell you again. I do, and so do many others here on this board who disagree with you.

[VRWC_Member428]

I told you. But, o.k., fine, I'll tell you again. I do, and so do many others here on this board who disagree with you.

Wow, you're world renowned for your honor and high moral caliber? Wow, I didn't know I was speaking to somebody who was so world-renound! So, are you Mother Teresa's daughter?

My point is that I could say that I'm of high moral caliber. But you have no way to know that. I'm looking for somebody KNOWN (read: famous) for honor, etc. who approved of torture. Mahatma Gahndi?

"As soon as we lose the moral basis, we cease to be religious. There is no such thing as religion over-riding morality. Man, for instance,cannot be untruthful, cruel or incontinent and claim to have God on his side."

-Mahatma Gahndi

God bless America. At the same time, we hope God doesn't mind if we decide to start torturing people.

[Fred]

Force them to listen to a Hillary Clinton speech...