FBI Considers Torture As Suspects Stay Silent

The Times (UK) ^ | 10-22-2001 | Damian Whitworth

[blam]

MONDAY OCTOBER 22 2001

FBI considers torture as suspects stay silent

FROM DAMIAN WHITWORTH IN WASHINGTON

AMERICAN investigators are considering resorting to harsher interrogation techniques, including torture, after facing a wall of silence from jailed suspected members of Osama bin Laden’s al-Qaeda network, according to a report yesterday. More than 150 people who were picked up after September 11 remain in custody, with four men the focus of particularly intense scrutiny. But investigators have found the usual methods have failed to persuade any of them to talk.

Options being weighed include “truth” drugs, pressure tactics and extraditing the suspects to countries whose security services are more used to employing a heavy-handed approach during interrogations.

“We’re into this thing for 35 days and nobody is talking. Frustration has begun to appear,” a senior FBI official told The Washington Post.

Under US law, evidence extracted using physical pressure or torture is inadmissible in court and interrogators could also face criminal charges for employing such methods. However, investigators suggested that the time might soon come when a truth serum, such as sodium pentothal, would be deemed an acceptable tool for interrogators.

The public pressure for results in the war on terrorism might also persuade the FBI to encourage the countries of suspects to seek their extradition, in the knowledge that they could be given a much rougher reception in jails back home.

One of the four key suspects is Zacarias Moussaoui, a French Moroccan, suspected of being a twentieth hijacker who failed to make it on board the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania. Moussaoui was detained after he acted suspiciously at a Minnesota flying school, requesting lessons in how to steer a plane but not how to take off or land. Both Morocco and France are regarded as having harsher interrogation methods than the United States.

The investigators have been disappointed that the usual incentives to break suspects, such as promises of shorter sentences, money, jobs and new lives in the witness protection programme, have failed to break the silence.

“We are known for humanitarian treatment, so basically we are stuck. Usually there is some incentive, some angle to play, what you can do for them. But it could get to that spot where we could go to pressure . . . where we don’t have a choice, and we are probably getting there,” an FBI agent involved in the investigation told the paper.

The other key suspects being held in New York are Mohammed Jaweed Azmath and Ayub Ali Khan, Indians who were caught the day after the attacks travelling with false passports, craft knives such as those used in the hijackings and hair dye. Nabil Almarabh, a Boston taxi driver alleged to have links to al-Qaeda, is also being held. Some legal experts believe that the US Supreme Court, which has a conservative tilt, might be prepared to support curtailing the civil liberties of prisoners in terrorism cases.

However, a warning that torture should be avoided came from Robert Blitzer, a former head of the FBI’s counter-terrorism section. He said that the practice “goes against every grain in my body. Chances are you are going to get the wrong person and risk damage or killing them.”

In all, about 800 people have been rounded up since the attacks, most of whom are expected to be found to be innocent. Investigators believe there could be hundreds of people linked to al-Qaeda living in the US, and the Bush Administration has issued a warning that more attacks are probably being planned.

Newsweek magazine reports today that Mohammed Atta, the suspected ringleader who died in the first plane to hit the World Trade Centre, had been looking into hitting an aircraft carrier. Investigators retracing his movements found that he visited the huge US Navy base at Norfolk, Virginia, in February and April this year.

[Sparticle]

Congressman Condit calls it "a return to tried-and-tested law enforcement traditions," in an interview with CNN today.

[VRWC_Member428]

For the first time, the postings of Free Republic freepers has made me sick. Some of the postings in this thread make me want to vomit!

What is WRONG with you people??? You're actually approving of torture!

DO YOU REALLY WANT TO BE LIKE THEM???

This is NOT the time to start throwing out the Constitution! In case any of you haven't noticed:

Amendment VIII: Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

The Declaration of Independence starts thus: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

These people you want to torture haven't even had trials yet! But still, you want to go against the very foundational principles which this nation was founded on. And you can't hide behind saying that we should do it because we are at war. Torture of prisoners is against the Geneva Convention. If we violate that, we're no worse than the Nazis.

Perhaps we should all put on black boots, brown shirts, and red armbands! Is this what you want to see in America???



Is this the vision of America which you see in your sick twisted minds? Is this what you want to see start happening? Tourture and executions with no trials? I'm disgusted that people who would claim to be Americans would suggest that we stoop to the tactics used by everybody we have ever fought against. If we allow crap like this to happen in the US, then the terrorists have won. If you agree that this is a vision of things which should happen in America, if you agree that torture should be allowed, if you agree that we should become just as evil as the terrorists themselves, then GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY!!!

[1rudeboy]

From my limited legal experience, I would suggest that we extradite these bastards to France.
Let the French interrogate them with an "adviser" feeding the questions.
Quick, legal, effective. And we won't be able to rip on the French in the same way now, would we?

[Paranoid-Pessimist]

You know the Taliban cannot wait to capture some American soldiers so they can torture them. We'll have to fight fire with fire, once that starts happening.

[clamper1797]

You are right Sir.

[Kryptonite]

That's why we should send them to Turkey and let them interrogate the suspects.

[LibWhacker]

Perhaps LibWhhacked would like to read that amendment.

Been there done that, goofball. The difference between us is you don't give a damn about millions of American lives. It's a wonder if you managed to get an honorable discharge.

[Sparticle]

Here are your sick twisted minds

AMERICAN investigators
a senior FBI official
an FBI agent involved in the investigation
Some legal experts

Either that, or very frustrated investigators feeling impotent and wanting to share the feeling with others.

[DaveTesla]

Since we are under a bio-chemical attack and you and your family could be hit with small pox, you are
telling me you would resist this tactic even if it would save the life of your family?
Wake UP!
This is not a hypothetical!
Or will it take a death of one of your family for you to understand?
These people are attacking our country and have already murdered 6,000.
They told you they would be back yet you still do not understand?

[Sparticle]

We'll have to fight fire with fire

Or with Holy Water.

[ME4W]

Agree. I will never get those visions out of my mind or those of the folks on the airplanes as they crashed. GOD bless them.

[COL. FLAGG]

There are a few problems with torture

It energizes the enemy to fight harder against us and much less likely to surrender"

Do you really think members of Al Qaeda could be more highly motivated than they are right now?

You may be doing the torture to an innocent person.

Too bad, the stakes are too high right now. If we have to kill 1000 innocent civilians to take out bin Laden and Mullah Omar I would consider that regrettable but neccessary.

This is a moral war. This will end with the first reported case of torture, and will facture the unity of your own side

The torture should go on behind the scenes, not on C-SPAN.

[Joe 6-pack]

"nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."

Many of the people behind that verbiage tarred and feathered their british oppressors...Those same fine personages lived by the pillories and paid bounties on the heads of the Barbary pirates.

War is ugly. Guerilla war is even uglier. Goya captured the ugliness of Napoleonic occupation during our nation's youth. I agree that we must not sacrifice our national, constitutional integrity, but an enemy of the state who would kill your daughter, brother, cousin, uncle, mom, dad or puppy dog, just because they are American is not a common criminal, and they must be dealt with in uncommon terms.

My brother was in the Pentagon on 9/11. It was not until much later that night I found out he was alive. The things I felt that day pale in comparison to the thoughts I've expressed tonight...

[iknowtoo]

get them an interpreter, quick!!

[paul51]

While your reading them their rights, their buddies could be killing my family. Get real

[Sparticle]

we are under a bio-chemical attack
These people

Let the FBI do its job on this stuff before you jump to conclusions about who these people are.

I am sorry that you are so frightened by recent events, but I URGE YOU to keep your head about you, or terrorism will win the day.

[Sparticle]

PLEASE turn off the tube.

[zog]

---hmm, "emergency decrees", "long war, may take forever", "we may have to give up some rights for the greater good" , "more security", and now "torture".

sounding sorta familiar already, been expecting it for several years now. Oh ya, 'standing shoulder to shoulder" with china, and now 'working with the russians more closely". Uh huh, yep.

good luck to all..

[Rightwing Conspiratr1]

Well said. The only thing we have to fear is fear itself. And it looks to be rampant on this thread.

[Lurker]

Exactly where in the 8th Amendment did you see the word "people" or the word "citizen"?

Do try to keep up here Mr. 6-pack.

The Bill Of Rights was enacted as the final check on Federal Power. In several Amendments, the word 'people' was used and quite deliberately so. The BOR does indeed enumerate certain rights retained exclusively to 'the people'.

In the 8th Amendment, the word 'people' or 'citizen' is quite conspicuously absent. Why do you suppose that might be?

That's because the BOR also enumerates certain things the Federal Government may not do under almost any circumstances. For proof of this I offer:

Amendment III

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Once again, one doesn't find the word 'citizen' anywhere. This amendment also acts as a check on Federal Power.

Trust me Joe. There are a lot of things you don't want the Federal Government doing and torturing people is pretty high up on the list. The guys who set our Government up were pretty smart, and they made the rules pretty clear.

The only 'breathtaking' here is your readiness to allow the Federal Government the power to torture people.

L