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FBI Considers Torture As Suspects Stay Silent
The Times (UK) ^ | 10-22-2001 | Damian Whitworth

Posted on 10/21/2001 6:49:04 PM PDT by blam

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To: cardinal4
Me too. I want it imprinted, so that we never forget!
241 posted on 10/22/2001 9:14:28 AM PDT by Travis McGee
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To: Alma 2616
99% of people who post on this forum do have a concept. In Afghanistan, men are being tortured, hung, and skinned alive, women are being executed in a football stadium at point blank range, 1 in 4 children die by age 5. All in the name of some whacked out fundamentalist religious zealot and his band of satanical gouls. Evil is to good for these monsters. This is the devil himself.

Ordinary people were at an extraordinary building. The terrorists did not attack a small town or city, or a McDonalds or a Blockbuster. The WTC and Pentagon were attacked because they represent capitalism (and possibly the White House and Capital), and the guarntee of high exposure. Similar to anthrax, news readers and congress will have a better chance of making international headlines than me. If we were not at war with these terrorists, if we did not retaliate, if we gave in to the peaceniks, if Gore was in charge, then we would have big problem. And I thank God every day that George W. Bush is our leader.

We all have seen the pictures of people hanging out of the WTC, the images of ground zero. It's appalling, the death and destruction, but we need to destroy the b@stards and their regimes, those who committed these crimes, they will be eliminated.

I do understand, more than you will ever know.

I would highly recommend all Americans watch "Beneath the Veil" on CNN. It is something you will never forget. It will be engraved in my mind forever. It is an experience similar to the first time you learned about what Hitler and Stalin did to humans in WWII. But, fair warning, it is very graphic and very disturbing.

President Bush refers the taliban as evil, I believe he was being kind. The taliban are devils, straight from he!!. You will never be able to forget. This is what we are fighting for, to keep our freedom and our liberty.

CNN link:

Beneath the Veil, Women in Afghanistan, click on 'story'

Here is the beginning text from the web site:

Ever since the Taliban took control of most of Afghanistan in 1996, the group has imposed its harsh version of Islamic law on the country. In "Beneath the Veil," journalist Saira Shah traveled to Afghanistan to see the effects of the Taliban's rule on her father's homeland.

She discovered public executions, allegations of human rights violations like massacres and torture, and a place where women are forced to beg because they are prevented from working. But she also found that the first voices of protest come from the most repressed, including an opposition group that uses hidden cameras to film the executions.

The FR link is:

Beneath the Veil, Women in Afghanistan

242 posted on 10/22/2001 9:51:11 AM PDT by WIMom
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To: WIMom
Amen
243 posted on 10/22/2001 10:30:29 AM PDT by Texaggie79
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To: infowarrior
I took an oath, to "protect, preserve, and defend The Constitution"

That seems pretty pointless, seeing as how you don't understand it.

244 posted on 10/22/2001 10:33:24 AM PDT by Texaggie79
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To: Goetz_von_Berlichingen
As far as I have read, torture was not used by either side during the American War of Independence.

It's not something you write books about. I didn't read anyything about Washington's sex life, but I still assume he had one. Certain things are nasty little facts of life.

The phrase "ALL is fair in Love and WAR" holds true. Hell it was our founders gumption to defy the "rules of war" that won us our freedom. They came in from behind and shot officers in the back, they mercilessly slaughtered red coats in order to scare the crap out of the ones yet to arrive. War is not pretty.

245 posted on 10/22/2001 10:39:03 AM PDT by Texaggie79
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To: ALASKA
And even better yet, televise a new "reality show" starring G. Gordon out on some boat in international waters away from any juristiction displaying his interrogation techniques.

If the prisoners talk it's great; If they don't, then the "entertainment" is kicked up a notch ;-)

246 posted on 10/22/2001 10:42:00 AM PDT by F16Fighter
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To: error99
Ok....for all of you 'nice' wieenies out there. I have volunteered to design some 'nice' torture items to make our friends cooperate. First you move them to a isolated cell. You put a tv across from them, and you run bombing pictures of Afghanistan 24 hours a day, seven days a week, with no sound. Just loop the video. Second, you play the US national anthem in the background, just far away enough that lawyers cannot complain but close enough that its on for 24 hours a day. Each day, you walk two big marines by the cell in full dress combat uniform....just have them march by and stare at these idiots. Have fake radio broadcasts running with massive casualities, including possible capture and death of Bin Laden. Have a fake confession spoken over the air by Bin Laden. Let the idiot attornies try to throw that out. As many lies as the court is forced into accepting from them, a lie or two from us doesn't hurt.
247 posted on 10/22/2001 10:50:37 AM PDT by pepsionice
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To: lewislynn
His (Liddy's) best friend, Lanny Davis may not like that.

You mean the same smug, arrogant, Clinton-apologist-Lanny Davis who will be remembered for nothing but lies and subversions of the law of the land (as seen repeatedly on Geraldo) WILL NOT LIKE THE IDEA OF G. GORDON EXTRACTING INFO FROM A GUILTY PARTY? LOL!

248 posted on 10/22/2001 10:57:31 AM PDT by F16Fighter
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To: Texaggie79
"It's not something you write books about."

Probably because it didn't happen. But, as you may know, it is logically impossible to prove a negative. You can continue to think that Gen'l Washington and the rest were war criminals, but you have no evidence to back it up and no military historian of the period will take your contentions seriously.

"Certain things are nasty little facts of life."

Do not confuse 20th century practice with 18th century practice. There are many things we now accept as "facts of life" which would have been anathema to Gen'l Washington, his generation, and his class.

"Hell it was our founders gumption to defy the "rules of war" that won us our freedom."

If you mean accepted tactical and strategic common practice, the point is open to question.

" . . .they mercilessly slaughtered red coats in order to scare the crap out of the ones yet to arrive."

Check the casualty counts some time. More men died of disease than from wounds. The American War may have been many things, but it cannot be characterised as "merciless slaughter." And I do not recall any Crown forces either running away, surrendering, or mutineeing because of fear. If anything, it was the British who were the ones accused of atrocities (e.g., "Tarleton's Quarter"), although the colonists occasionally indulged to the slaughter of non-combatants, preferably of the native variety.

During the war, both sides took a considerable number of prisoners. Those in British captivity, while not tortured, were kept in extreme discomfort on prison ships. Those in American captivity were often paroled and sent to work on local farms. Check out the history of "The Convention Army" some time. They were the troops who surrendered with Burgoyne at Saratoga.

249 posted on 10/22/2001 11:15:39 AM PDT by Goetz_von_Berlichingen
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To: WIMom
When they come here, people from any part of the world are indeed covered by our Constitution; the Bill of Rights makes no mention of "citizens" because of the idea behind all rights, which is that all people are born with certain rights and it is government's duty to preserve them. If we start making exceptions, it will be a step back into the dark ages of absolute rule, and a violation of the spirit and letter of the Constitution. I'm not willing to watch everything good about our government stepped on for the sake of fighting this undeclared war.

Would America still be worth fighting for if it forfeits its soul for the sake of this war?

250 posted on 10/22/2001 11:26:18 AM PDT by Polonius
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To: whoever
How about forcing the to watch "Yentle" over & over. No one could withstand that...
251 posted on 10/22/2001 11:27:15 AM PDT by handy
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To: Texaggie79
Threaten their goats.
252 posted on 10/22/2001 11:29:25 AM PDT by Chemnitz
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To: MHGinTN
Is it considered "torture" to bring in a pig, hook it up to an IV, take a pint of the pig's blood, remove the IV from the pig and stick it into the suspect, and threaten to give them a pint of pig's blood? Cause I'd be willing to do that. Well, I suppose it isn't very nice to the PIG, but...
253 posted on 10/22/2001 11:35:37 AM PDT by Anamensis
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To: VRWC_Member428
Frankly, I have no interest in being "better" than my enemy. I simply want to win.
254 posted on 10/22/2001 11:37:17 AM PDT by Anamensis
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To: blam
Oh believe me I already wrote my WORTHLESS dem congressrat
David Price
(D) NC.

As usual the silence is deafening.

He probably knows my name by heart by now, he hears from me on a regular basis. Occasionally I will get the typical "canned" form letter response, it takes about 3 months for it to get to me. It's the usual line of liberal BS.

MKM

255 posted on 10/22/2001 11:41:43 AM PDT by mykdsmom
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To: Texaggie79; Texasforever
Are the persons we are tempted to torture officially P.O.W.'s, or are they criminal suspects? I had not heard. Further, if we resort to torture of P.O.W.'s or criminals to get information, shall we complain if enemies take Americans into custody and torture them for information?
256 posted on 10/22/2001 11:44:37 AM PDT by Texas Gal
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To: Goetz_von_Berlichingen
To torture an Enemy in order to save thousands of men's lives is not a criminal act.

And yes, brutality on the innocent was perpetrated by the British however the British soldiers experienced it as an action of war. You cannot deny that we did some "dirty" (by that times standards) things. We, in essence JUMPED their platoons with surprise attacks that gave no chance of retaliation or survival to the enemy.

And all this was the 1700's. Today we are dealing with an enemy that WANTS to slaughter our innocent citizens. And that would do anything necessary to do so. We must do anything necessary, under the restraints of the constitution, to stop them. And torture as warfare, not punishment, is not unconstitutional.

257 posted on 10/22/2001 11:46:08 AM PDT by Texaggie79
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To: Polonius
The Bill of Rights are an amendment to the Constitution.

The Bill of Rights

THE FIRST 10 AMENDMENTS TO THE CONSTITUTION AS RATIFIED BY THE STATES

Amendments 11-27 to the Constitution of the United States

Constitution of the United States of America - We the People of the United States...
258 posted on 10/22/2001 11:46:35 AM PDT by WIMom
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To: Texaggie79; Texasforever
By the way, I do not know what the legal implications of using some drug that would induce the people to tell the truth (i.e.truth serum) but perhaps that would be a way to go.
259 posted on 10/22/2001 11:47:05 AM PDT by Texas Gal
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To: Anamensis
Nah... That lacks subtlety. Sit the boy down in a chair, strap him to it, and then start asking questions. Did I mention that the interragator should be spooning lard into a gas mask as he asks his questions?
260 posted on 10/22/2001 11:48:08 AM PDT by Redcloak
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