[the808bass]

I don't believe someone truly saved could do this though, do you.

The writer of Hebrews seems to think so, IMO. Here's a side question to ponder while hoping it doesn't distract too much from the question at hand. Why did Jesus choose Judas as a disciple? Was Judas never a believer? Did he never accept Christ's teaching? Why on earth did he hang around then? Or was it all just a big play where God knew Judas was going to make a deal to kill Jesus and kept him around for that?

[JohnnyM]

you know, I've always wondered about Judas. The Bible never explicitly says whether or not he believed Christ was the Son of God. We don't hear much from him until the betrayal. We also know the Holy Spirit didn't come till after Christ's ascension, so he would not be filled with the Holy Spirit. So there are a few gray areas with Judas because the Word never really expounds on his "salvation" or state of grace.

JM

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

No I don't believe Judas was ever a believer. The bible tells us he was an unrepentent thief. He griped about the oil on Jesus. He did not seem to EVER have Christ in his heart. He talked the talk but did not walk the walk. We can know by their fruits thing:)

Maybe that is the answer to SD question, "how do you know when you have been lead by the HS to salvation?" If you can imagine you or anyone being able to "fall" then I don't see how you could have experienced true salvation. Not because we keep ourselves saved, but Jesus does. I am not going to keep my salvation, Jesus is going to keep me saved because I believe He died for me and he won"t ever let me go. I accepted the free gift.

Becky

[SoothingDave]

That's a heck of a "side question." Jesus called Judas and he responded so he couldn't have been completely empty. Unless he followed Jesus cause he thought it would get him chicks and money. Hmmm. I'll have to think about this again.

God definitely knew that His Son would be betrayed. Did he prepare Judas to be "hard hearted"? Didn't God "need" (so to speak) to have a Judas? Was Judas just playing his role? Can we hope that Judas repented of his role?

There are more questions than answers and it brings into play the whole predestination/free will thing.

The only thing I do know is this: a few years from now St Louis will join San Francisco and Dallas in the utterly ruined and spent (literally) franchises having to suck wind through a series of really bad years. Paying money to folks who don't even play anymore.

The Steelers, meanwhile, will be somewhere between 7-9 and 10-6 every year. And when they get the right confluence of events they might just surprise ya.

SD