Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
Christ came into the world through Mary
Ergo, Salvation came into the world through Mary
Dave why does this formula look familiar to me?
This is another one of those things that human logic says it's true, but totally contradicts what God says for us to believe in his word. Human logic cannot be used to figure out the mind of God. God said his son is the way of salvation. He never said anything about there needing to be a helper.
He knew Mary would accept. He needed a virgin to fulfill prophesy so that his people would recognize him when he came. But they were as skeptical as people are today:), trying to make more out of something then God intended.
Question: Why do you always read between the lines so to speak? why not just take it as is and be satisfied? It's so much simpler:)
Becky
I'm sure he would find it insulting, if you told him that the tools were the reason he did the job so well, not because he was a good mechanic.
Becky
Yes I do, but you have to be carefull, some types of cheeses will give you "Swamp Gas." :)
BigMack
It was a sign that Paul, for one, never bothered to mention.
I hope you just misworded this part of your post.
-ksen
Faith_j, I'm sorry about us getting off to a bad start together. It's just that I have little patience for people who are convinced the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon. You will find plenty of people on this thread who will agree with you, and plenty who won't, so I can promise that you'll get a full hearing here, instead of on a thread having to do with dying for one's faith. I'll be happy to discuss other things with you, and I'm sure we're in agreement on a lot of things, just not the Whore of Babylon.
Sorry, I was just trying to confirm your belief. I'm not sure of your particular belief, only the general believe of protestants.
First of all, you need to ask yourself, would a just and loving God really be so perverse as to burn people forever and ever merely for rejecting him? Or merely for never having the chance to be saved?
According to the bible, the fate of the unrepentent sinner is death.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
See also Psalm 116:8, Proverbs 8:36, James 5:20, Ezekial 18:4,20, Ezekial 3:19, Proverbs 19:16, John 5:24, John 8:51 among others.
From these verses, it's clear that the bible teaches that sinners will die. The saved will get eternal life.
Now I know what you're going to do. You're going to quote Rev 14:9-10, Rev 20:7-9,12-15 Matthew 25:41, and maybe 1 or 2 other places to "prove" the concept.
But read those verses carefully, in context, forgetting all the dogma and doctrine you've been taught. Can you honestly say that they say what you think they mean? If you do, I have answers for you.
Becky
Becky
Well, let's give him a holler. Hey biblewonk, what's up?
I am the whey...
It doesen't matter what you or I think, but it does matter what God says. You may reject the Word of God, but you cannot reject the fact that the Word of God has some very clear statements on hell.
First, hell is a prepared place. May I add this right now, and this is the language of the Lord Jesus:
Then He will also say to those on the left hand, “Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.” (Matthew 25:41)
The two individuals in the Scriptures who taught more on the subject of hell than any others were the Lord Jesus Christ and John, the apostle of love. In fact, if you take out of the Bible what they had to say, you will have practically nothing left on the subject of hell. They are the two who emphasized it, and when people talk today about the “gentle Jesus” and about following His teaching, what do they mean by “following His teaching”? It will lead you then to believe, and to know, that hell is a reality.
The second fact concerning hell is that it is not only a prepared place, but it is also eternal:
And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. (Matthew 25:46)
And John wrote this about the last days:
The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)
Now, there’s no way in the world of toning that down and trying to make it temporary. These verses mean exactly what they say.
Not only is hell a prepared place, and not only is it an eternal place, but it is a place of retribution. Let me give you some of the statements that are used concerning it. In Luke 16:28 it’s called a “place of torment.” In Matthew 25:41 it’s called “everlasting fire.” In Mark 9:44 it’s “where the worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched”; in Revelation 21:8, “the lake which burns with fire and brimstone”; Revelation 9:2, “the bottomless pit”; Matthew 8:12, “outer darkness,” a place of “weeping and gnashing of teeth”; Luke 3:17, “unquenchable fire”; Matthew 13:42, “furnace of fire”; Jude 13, “blackness of darkness”; and Revelation 14:11, “the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night.” May I say that this is solemn language indeed! Hell is a place of retribution.
BigMack
Do you hear what you are saying? Think about this.
1.MERELY FOR REJECTING HIM? HE created you. Without him you would be nothing. Do you have children. How would it affect you if they reject you?
2. Then this God who created us sent HIS OWN SON, to take the punishment for our sins!! HIS OWN SON, and you say "merely for rejecting him?"
3. And the only thing he asks us to do is accept him. That is absolutly all. and you say "merely for rejecting him."
4. God preverse. Are you kidding. God burns NO ONE. People burn themselves for not believeing in the obvious.
You need to get past the emotions, and feelings, and I thinks. and see the bible for what is says. Read Luke 16:19-31, and remember this is NOT a parable, but a real story about real people!
Becky
That may be to some extent, but there are parts that require no interpretation, Dave. What part of "Thou Shalt Not Murder", or Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness" don't you understand? What's so mysterious about "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man comes to the Father but by Me"?
I won't accept your statement as a way to explain away that which is obvious. The Word of God may have some deep hidden meanings, but it also has plain truth, plainly spoken, laying right there for anyone with half a brain to see. To get so enthralled with the "deep hidden meanings" that you can't see plain truth is not good. There must be a balance.
Hi Faith, welcome aboard! I'm angelo, the thread's token Jew. We have a wide range of opinions here, and we're not afraid to discuss anything related to "Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation". It does get heated at times, but we do try to keep the discussions reasonably civil. The topic of the moment, such as it is, seems to be the incarnation and Mary's cooperation or lack thereof. But feel free to bring up any new topic you like. I'm sure someone here will pick it up and run with it.
If I remember correctly, wimpycat is some flavor of Protestant.
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