The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
TNS Archives

[DouglasKC]

Well, I might have an issue with some of them.

Do me a favor, here is a link to a page from literature from the United Church of God. It goes into detail on the verse you quoted in Colossians.

It makes sense to me to look at a verse in the entire context of the chapter it's in and the background of what is being written about. Can you study it and tell me what is false about it?

Thanks!

[OLD REGGIE]

I don't think "*******" is an appropriate word to use on this forum. I called Conservative til I die on it, so I should you, too. ;)

Exactly what word are you speaking of?

[DouglasKC]

Thanks Angelo, but I'm having a hard enough time getting my mind around Christianity! I'm not quite sure if I'm ready to go into what Jews believe yet!

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Hello, we (my husband and I) are always excited to hear about new Christians. It is also very encouraging to find one actually seeking the truth. So many just make an empty confession, then never grow from there. I would like to answer any questions I can to help you out. Sometimes it helps us answering the questions to know where the person asking is, what they know, what they think is correct. So can we go over some basic's so I can know where you are at.

Do you believe if you died tonight that you would go to heaven?

Becky

[OLD REGGIE]

The Scripture hints that Jesus was praying for an hour. Do you suppose it took him that long to say one sentence?

Let's just suppose the prayer took an hour. Jesus went away for at least an hour. By your logic there was a minimum of one hour between the repeat of the prayer. Hardly time for a "stretch" is it?

Let's face it. This doesn't begin to fit into your argument.

[malakhi]

Thanks Angelo, but I'm having a hard enough time getting my mind around Christianity! I'm not quite sure if I'm ready to go into what Jews believe yet!

That's fine!

Just keep in mind, since you were asking about observance of the Sabbath, that as a gentile you are not obligated to observe the Saturday Sabbath.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Let me add that there will probablye alot of people jump in with alot of answers and comments. It is our responsibility to discern the truth. 2 Tim. 2:15. It can be difficult but if you intreprete God's Word using 3 criteria always, you will arrive at the truth Historical, literal, grammatical. Always know who wrote the book, why they were writing, who they were writing too, when they were writing. It makes a big difference. Just wanted to tell you this so you will keep it in mind when you study any scripture I give you. Also PRAY, PRAY, PRAY, for the Holy Spirits guidance.

Becky

[nobdysfool]

This brings me to another huge question....aren't we supposed to follow the ten commandments?

Are you a Jew? If so, then the Ten Commandments would apply to you BEFORE you are born again, but once you are born again, you are freed from the Law, because Jesus paid the penalty for sin under the Law. When you are in Christ, you have passed from death to life, and are no longer under the Law, being dead with Christ. The Law has no hold on a dead man. You are alive in Christ, and freed from the law of sin and death.

Now, if you are a Gentile, then you never were under the Law, because the Law was only given to the Jews. However, even though not all men were under the Law, all suffer the penalty of death for sin, because that penalty, resulting from sin, precedes the Law. Jesus paid that price, thereby allowing Gentiles to enter in to God's family. Once again, if you are born again, you are dead as far as the penalty for sin, but alive in Christ. That is why Christ said that to enter the Kingdom of heaven, you must be born again.

[OLD REGGIE]

I pointed out on an earlier thread that the way some people interpret "vain repetition," a person would be allowed to pray the "Our Father" only once in his entire life. One of the posters actually agreed!

What "some" people or "one" person interpret "vain repetition" as is of no value.

I might say the same prayer, chanted up to 10 times in a row and repeated for up to 15 times, could be interpreted as "vain repetition".

Did you get your interpretation of "vain repitition" from Scripture?

[RobbyS]

Unlike you I don't assume that my reading of the text has any special authority. I can read the Constitution but that does not make my world "law" Under our constitution and laws, only a judge has that authority. According to my reading of Scripture, the prophets looked forward to the coming of Jesus' according to my reading, Christ established a Church with a hierarchy. Angelo disagrees with my first conclusion, you with the second. We read the same words, but how we read them is predicated on choices made before we open the book.

[SoothingDave]

but once you are born again, you are freed from the Law, because Jesus paid the penalty for sin under the Law.

I'm sorry, but you just shouldn't say things like this. Especially to a new Christian! He can easily misunderstand this to mean that he is free to sin all he wants. You don't even make a passing reference to the fact that, while we are no longer under the Law, it remains as a goal, God's vision for how we should behave.

SD

[Titanites]

If so, then the Ten Commandments would apply to you BEFORE you are born again, but once you are born again, you are freed from the Law, because Jesus paid the penalty for sin under the Law. When you are in Christ, you have passed from death to life, and are no longer under the Law, being dead with Christ.

So are you claiming that since the commandments no longer apply that it is ok for those born again to do the things forbidden by them?

[al_c]

Becky/BigMack ... did you happen to catch the end of my #4105? ;o) I also left Mack a way to code bigger fonts.

[nobdysfool]

What did Jesus mean by saying "vain" to modify the word "repetition"?

The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines the word vain as being from the Latin vanus, meaning idle, worthless, unsuccessful, useless, foolish, silly, conceited. Synonym is futile. Again, since all translations which I can check have translated the Greek word used as vain, the meaning of the Greek must be very clear, and the translation accurate.

So, Jesus said "When you pray, do not use idle, worthless, unsuccessful, useless, foolish, silly, conceited, futile repetition as the heathen do, for they think they will be heard for their many words". I think Jesus' meaning was very clear.

[Titanites]

So, Jesus said "When you pray, do not use idle, worthless, unsuccessful, useless, foolish, silly, conceited, futile repetition as the heathen do, for they think they will be heard for their many words". I think Jesus' meaning was very clear.

So do I. I agree with all that you say here.