The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
TNS Archives

[NATE4"ONE NATION"]

I really don't see what that has to do with this subject.

I could not except a perfectly molded plan and timed exactly right if God's hand wasn't guiding and hence, predestining all these actions. He is not just an all-knower, but the architect.
It went hand in hand with my eschatological shift

Besides, it is key to us not doubting God's motives for the way things seem today.

Do you believe that that is all there is to salvation?

I believe it is much simpler. Hebrews 8 and 10 are the essence. It explains where the accountability lies for our differences throughout the church.
I believe we can be saved if we do not have matching theology past the points I mentioned.
I feel that some theological differences are actually just maturity differences.
Pentacostal - Arminian - Reformed - etc.
These of course, are based on MY experiences and the testimonies of my fellow preterist/reformed friends.

Nate, you are beginning to sound like a preacher. You almost had me thinking everything was all just fine and dandy.

I am sorry to have disappointed you.
But again, the sovereignty of God and His plan is what can put the weary mind at ease.

I think one more simplification is here:

Matt 11:27 All things have been delivered to me by my Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and any one to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. 28 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

I see a link between those whom the Son has chose and those who are weary.
Do you see what I am trying to say?

[Romulus]

IOW's the whole thing is me,me,me, when it should be Jesus, Jesus, Jesus.

The whole point of the piece is that, without life in Jesus, eternally begotten by the Father, and together with the Spirit constituting a single community, there is no "me". To lack life in Jesus is to lack life eternally; to be not known by Jesus is existentially speaking, not to exist.

The whole point of the piece is that self-sufficiency is illusory: there is no life outside communion in the Church, and self-alienation destroys communion.

[JHavard]

Which 'version' are you sticking to as inspired, J ? Are you stating that all 'versions' hold the same weight of inspiration? Or do you have some insight as to which ones are more inspired than the rest ?

You seem to forget, most of us NC’s do not require any single translation or epistle, the test is if they harmonize. The Bible isn’t restricted to any one single verse, chapter or writer, but to the harmony of them all.

Unlike RC’s, who make whole doctrine on single words and verses, we use a much higher standard, we require more then one supporting verse before we consider it grounded in truth.

As to the Timothy verse, no, I put the emphasis on the correct part. Paul instructed those listening to him to entrust faithful men for a specific reason. He ENTRUSTED others to pass along that which was ENTRUSTED to him, in order that the Word would continue to be carried forth through times and generations. Those in a position of authority were entrusted with the duty to both protect, and pass along the Scriptures. Paul wasn`t saying that unless you get it directly from him, then it wasn`t valid.

Well, I can’t argue with that, you did put the emphasis on the correct part if you’re trying to spin the verse, but anyone reading it can see what Paul was telling them to do, look at it again.

2 Tim 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to, who shall be able to teach others also.

Paul is telling Timothy, don’t repeat things you may have heard I said, but make sure there are many witnesses that will verify it, and those you teach, require the same of them.

Earlier in the same epistle to Timothy, Paul said,

2 Tim 1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

Paul had told Timothy to hold fast to sound words that you heard me say. Again, not allowing him to start making up his own doctrine, but to hold fast to what Paul had taught.

Then again in the following chapter of Timothy.

2 Tim 3: 14. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

15. And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17. That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

My Paraphrase

V-14 Paul tells him to continue in the things he’s learned and have been assured of, and knowing who you learned them from.

V-15 Remember the things you learned as a child from the scripture, which make you wise unto salvation through faith and Christ Jesus.

V-16 All the scripture you read is given by the inspiration from God, and can be used for reproving others in spiritual matters, for correcting them and instructing them on how to be righteous.

No where does Paul even hint that anyone can start making up their own religion or how they think it would better serve God or the people, but to follow the scripture and what Paul has taught them while inspired by the Holy spirit.

JH

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Unlike RC’s, who make whole doctrine on single words and verses, we use a much higher standard, we require more then one supporting verse before we consider it grounded in truth.

And just think, all this only after 2 or 3 weeks attending a baptist church. :)

BigMack

[al_c]

I might add that social events included fine dining, after-Mass champagne and brunch at my place, a Louisiana cooking lesson (Romulus's Famous Jambalaya) -- interrupted by an impromtu tinfoil hat making contest -- and several marathon late-night conversations at the Askeltorium (entertainment provided by the Downtown Irish St. Patrick's Day parade). We'd love to get y'all down here next year!

Keep me posted ... that sounds like fun! And my mouth is watering thinking about that Jambalaya! :o)

[ksen]

Yes, and thanks for asking. The drive is a little much though, last Sunday on the way back to Clearwater, there was a bad accident on the Courtney Campbell Causeway on the Clearwater side, and we sat in traffic for an hour in the Florida sun inching our way along, and finally before we got to the bridge, they started turning everyone around and sending us back to Tampa, then we had to drive south and get on the Howard Franklin bridge to St Pete, and finally home.

We didn't get home till after 3PM.

Wow, I hope you have a good alternate route handy now in case something like that happens again.

This is a great church, and the minister is phenomenal on scripture, and his knowledge of the Bible. Were going to try and wait to see if the traffic clears up after the college kids go back home after spring break. You are probably having the same problem up there aren’t you?

I didn’t think we were having a “spring break” problem until I took the family to the beach on Saturday. Boy, the place was packed. We were able to find a good spot on the beach and the kids had a good time boogie boarding, building sand castles, and playing games. We stayed about three hours and unfortunately my Irish blood made itself known and I got a pretty bad sunburn where I missed applying sun screen.

BTW, for all you people with a real winter, it was about 80 – 85 degrees with a nice ocean breeze most of this weekend. ;^)

I'll give you a link to the church, he has a weekly half hour TV broadcast, and he's on the radio 10Am Mon through Fri, and at 10"30PM Sat and Sun.

His name is Hank Lindstrum, and the church is the Calvery Community Church, there affiliated some way with the Moody Bible Inst out of Chicago.

Thanks, I’ll check it out. I have some pretty good things about Moody. I hear someone from there, the President maybe, on our local radio station on Sundays. His name is Erwin Lutzer(sp?).

Next Saturday evening, the 30th, they're having what they call a Resurrection Sundown service at 6:pm to celebrate the Resurrection of course, and as he says, Christ was risen at around 6PM Sat evening, not Sunday morning, which I thought was rather neat. Than they're having the regular worship service Sunday morning.

Sounds like it should be a good service. I hope you and Mrs. Jhavard make it.

How is your kidney stone, has it broken up yet? Your still in our prayers. JH

I don’t think I have passed it yet, but I haven’t had any discomfort for a couple of weeks. I go for an MRI of that area in a couple of weeks to make sure. Thank you for your prayers, they mean a lot to me.

My wife wants to spend a weekend over on the “left” coast of FL sometime, after we save the cash up. We evacuated to Sarasota when Floyd was threatening a couple of years ago and my wife fell in love with the Gulf coast beaches. I hope that when we do maybe we can get together for lunch.

-ksen

[biblewonk]

Wow. That was a well thought out post. I was feeling ashamed for about 5 seconds after I read 527. Then your thread gave me back the perspective that I needed, THANKS! It occurs to me that if the Lord Jesus Christ was posting to Pharasees(sp) He would be called a major religious bigot. I guess being called that really means nothing at all to me.

[al_c]

al_c: your the best catholic I know,(you would make a good baptist:) your a good man, and have made me stop and think about how I look at things. Thank You.

Gwarsh ... how embarrisin'! Baptist?! I'll get you for that one, Mack! ;o) Actually ... Baptist I could probably live with, but Babdiss ... no way, no how! ;o)

I can honestly say that I am a better man and a better Christian after getting involved in this thread, too. I still disagree with many things from "the other side" but have spent more time than ever studying the Word and not just reading it.

Thanks to all for your arguments, support and most of all for your prayers.

God bless!
AC

[al_c]

Thank you for the heads-up, Angelo. I'd love to write a few things to both the moderator and Jim; but, I think mostly you guys have summed up much of what I would say. That said, I have an announcement. I am operating at a handicap for now - literally. I have 2nd degree burns to my left hand and my typing speed is in the sub-basement for now. They aren't extensive - just strategic (right on the first joint and webbing of my thumb). It's incredibly difficult to type with both hands righ now so I'm not going to do it as every time my blisters touch the keyboard, I want to say bad things quite loudly. So, please, if you have questions for me, be patient. I'll answer as quickly as I can. Thank you all.

I'm sure you're not typing much, but I hope you're at least reading.

Sorry to hear about the injury. May God bring quick healing to your burns and may He ease your pain during your recovery.

God bless, Havoc ... hope you return soon.

[biblewonk]

The basic theme of the Bible from the Book of Genesis to the Book of Revelation is

To change the subject just for a second. If you asked every Christian that you know what is the basic theme to the bible, you would probably get a different answer from each one of them. I find myself trying to sum this up too from time to time and that's why this phrase of yours catches my attention.

[al_c]

Happy Monday, everyone! Looks like y'all had a busy weekend in here. Thanks to everyone that pitched in to save this forum. And welcome to all of the newcomers.

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Wait for the LORD; be strong, and let your heart take courage; yea, wait for the LORD!

Monday, March 25, 2002

First Reading: Responsorial Psalm: Gospel:

Isaiah 42:1-7 Psalm 27:1-3, 13-14 John 12:1-11

What a powerful example Mary of Bethany is! In her desire to honor Jesus, no cost was too great. Nothing meant more to her than being with him. The joy of being loved by him filled her heart to overflowing, and she wanted to spend as much time with him as she could.

How much the Lord must rejoice when any one of us comes to him with the same love and devotion! When we approach him as Mary did, our outpouring of love is like fragrant nard. Its perfume fills everything we do. It overflows into all the situations we face and makes the peace and contentment in our hearts shine out to others. Coworkers wonder why we seem so lighthearted and calm. Neighbors feel drawn to us and are more willing to seek our counsel. Family members are touched by the ease and selflessness with which we perform even the most menial of tasks.

How did Mary arrive at this place in her life? We make a mistake when we think she first loved Jesus and that moved him to bless her in return. Like John, Peter, the woman at the well, the man born blind, and so many others, Mary was first and foremost a recipient of Jesus' love. It was Jesus who found her and whose love touched the deepest part of her heart. It was his love for her that awakened her love for him and moved her to such an extravagant act of worship.

This Holy Week, can we all sit with Jesus and let him speak words of love to us--a love that knows no bounds? Can we dare to open our hearts to him and let him heal our wounds and shine his light into our darkness? Then, changed by his glory, our every action will fill our homes with the fragrant perfume of love for Jesus.

"Lord Jesus, I know that even if I were the only one who needed saving, you would have come and died for me. Help me to respond single-heartedly by praising and serving you with all my heart. I love you, Lord!"

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If that doesn't get your Monday off to a great start, then nothing will. ;o)

Have a great day!

AC

[wimpycat]

While I haven't dropped in on this thread in quite awhile, I appreciate being on the cc: list.

So somebody thinks you'd make a good Baptist, huh? I don't think you could survive the weddings, buddy. You'd die of boredom and lack of alcohol. :-)

You know what I think, I think that in the midst of all this crazy debate and re-hashing of competing concepts and flaring tempers and dissing each other's deeply held religious beliefs and all, everybody's gotten to know each other a little better. When, in spite of disagreement and hurt feelings, people start caring about each other as individuals, and have a genuine concern about them and what happens in their lives, that's God's Word in action, IMHO. Differences in Scriptural translations and traditions and all the rest haven't affected what Jesus said was the most important--love your neighbor as yourself.

[newgeezer]

Lead Moderator said

Any idea who this "Lead Moderator" is? Sure looks like someone was on a power trip, in need of a serious tug on the reins.

Or, a swirly. A wedgie, at least.

[al_c]

So somebody thinks you'd make a good Baptist, huh? I don't think you could survive the weddings, buddy. You'd die of boredom and lack of alcohol. :-)

Naw ... those weddings don't last long enough to get bored. However, one can only take so much punch, cake and after dinner mints. ;o)

My wedding started at 2 in the afternoon. With a full Mass, the ceremony lasted about 1 1/2 to 2 hours. We left the reception at about 10 in the evening but everyone else stayed until close to 1 in the morning. Those crazy Czechs and Germans! ;o)

You know what I think, I think that in the midst of all this crazy debate and re-hashing of competing concepts and flaring tempers and dissing each other's deeply held religious beliefs and all, everybody's gotten to know each other a little better. When, in spite of disagreement and hurt feelings, people start caring about each other as individuals, and have a genuine concern about them and what happens in their lives, that's God's Word in action, IMHO. Differences in Scriptural translations and traditions and all the rest haven't affected what Jesus said was the most important--love your neighbor as yourself.

Well said, wimpycat.

[OLD REGGIE]

You know what I think, I think that in the midst of all this crazy debate and re-hashing of competing concepts and flaring tempers and dissing each other's deeply held religious beliefs and all, everybody's gotten to know each other a little better. When, in spite of disagreement and hurt feelings, people start caring about each other as individuals, and have a genuine concern about them and what happens in their lives, that's God's Word in action, IMHO. Differences in Scriptural translations and traditions and all the rest haven't affected what Jesus said was the most important--love your neighbor as yourself.

IMNotHO the re-hashing nature which makes this thread "Neverending" is one of it's fine points. When a "newbie" comes aboard he/she can't be expected to be aware of all the discussions and arguments from the past. Every single time a subject is "re-hashed" it brings first time information and arguments to the "newbie" while often bringing new insights to those who have been over the same ground previously. I find myself actually looking forward to some re-hashing. For those subjects I have little or no interest in; that is the reason scrolling was invented.

Thank you. Your point is well taken.

[pegleg]

Appreciate you keeping me on your ping list. Although I don’t post much anymore I still occasionally lurk. I can’t believe this thread is one year old. How long is it gonna take to convert all the NCC’s? -:)

IMHO all of them would make excellent Catholics.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I find myself actually looking forward to some re-hashing.

LOL. Me too.

Becky

[OLD REGGIE]

Becky: Is this true?

Relationship with God

Big Mack went for his annual physical. All of his tests came back with great results. Dr. Cohen said, "Mack everything looks great physically. How are you doing mentally, emotionally and are you at peace with yourself, and have a good relationship with God?"

Mack replied, "God and me are tight. We are so close that when I get up in the middle of the night, *poof* . . . the light goes on when I go to the bathroom and then *poof* the light goes off!"

"Wow," commented Dr. Cohen, "That's incredible!"

A little later in the day Dr. Cohen called Mack's wife. "Becky," he said, "Mack" is just fine. Physically he's great. But I had to call because I'm in awe of his relationship with God. Is it true that he gets up during the night and *poof* the light goes on in the bathroom and then *poof* the light goes off?"

Becky replied, "The darn fool! . . . He's peeing in the fridge again!"

[biblewonk]

What would your suggestions be for the setup of a FR religious discussion board. Let's brainstorm this!

Newgeezer would be a lot better at answering this question than I. He's helped JimRob with html things before.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

ROFLOL:)

Now I am wondering....we have a spot in front of our fridge that every few days is wet. He keeps telling me there is something clogging the drain, I have checked numerous times and find nothing. Do you suppose.....?

Becky