The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
TNS Archives

[OLD REGGIE]

Well, how old is Old Reggie?

This time around? I admit to being a depression baby, nothing more.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Very good point, because they have said they don't even know if their ownselves are going to heaven!

Becky

[al_c]

I am ignorant of so many things yet find only those who are worse off than me.

Luke 18: 9 - 14
9	He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous and despised others:
10	"Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
11	The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, `God, I thank thee that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.
12	I fast twice a week, I give tithes of all that I get.'
13	But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, `God, be merciful to me a sinner!'
14	I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for every one who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted."

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[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Have you ever had a friend lie to you? How about if they lie 3 or 4 times? Do you still trust them? Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me!

Becky

[ksen]

"Everywhen." Love it! Thanks.

I wish I could claim credit for coming up with that word, but I heard it from my pastor. So on his behalf, your welcome.

;^)

-ksen

[malakhi]

Mornin' everyone!

Hey, did you know that this web site has, like, other articles and stuff?! No, really! ;o)

Well, I'm back. Got a few questions for my Christian friends:

1) What is 'the Kingdom of God'?

2) How does the Christian concept of asceticism differ from that of Gnosticism?

[al_c]

Hey, Reg ... I realize I'm way behind (I'm trying to catch up), but your grammar critique is a bit harsh, methinks. Pretty much everyone in this saga is making horrendous grammar mistakes, not just Pelayo. Let's stay on topic without resorting to personal attacks, shall we?

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Wrong. If the church is the body of Christ, that makes the mother of Jesus the mother of all of us.

This is reasoning out things from man's prespective. This is like SD's remark that Mary is the mother of God. From a man's prespective I guess those remarks are true, but I don't believe that is the way God wants us to view her or he would have used those terms about her in his word.

Rom. 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counselor?

Becky

[malakhi]

Very good Mack, I wonder if angelo looks at this scripture as a prophecy of their coming Messiah?

No, Jews do not read this as a messianic passage. My bible calls it "A Psalm of David". This psalm is about suffering at the hands of one's enemies. It is neither prophetic nor messianic. Do you really mean to apply this psalm to Jesus?

The following passages of scripture are the ones considered by Jews to be messianic:

Isaiah 2, 11, 42; 59:20
Jeremiah 23, 30, 33; 48:47; 49:39
Ezekiel 38:16
Hosea 3:4-3:5
Micah 4
Zephaniah 3:9
Zechariah 14:9
Daniel 10:14

[al_c]

Catholics treat sin flippantly at times

You're generalizing. Not a good thing.

...some is serious; some is not so serious...But ALL sin is serious in the sight of God.

Spend some time reading the First Letter of John. You may change your mind.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Honorius was condemned for heresy by a council, he never in fact taught that heresy

Gasp! And all this time I thought Popes were infallible.

Ah. That felt good. Its been a long time. Hey everybody "the boys are back in town". Woo hoo.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

This is what I am talking about:

the Honorius case is one of only two or three for which they can make an arguable case.

Two or threes arguable cases have been made that your church has lied to you. How many does it take?

Becky

[Invincibly Ignorant]

I would post to "all" but for some reason the system won't let me. I lurked a little while I was gone but I missed alot and I'm just not going to take the time and go back. Just not gonna do it. But a couple of observations....Post #3105 Soothing Dave said "You must be new here. Havoc speaks the Word of God." I must point out that anyone protestant, catholic or otherwise rightly dividing the word of truth quoting from the Holy Sriptures is "speaking the Word of God". Havoc should take that as a compliment. The second thing I'd like to point out is that Havoc's post #3208 was truly a masterpiece.

[OLD REGGIE]

There is a detailed response to Webster's allegations about Pope Honorius here. Dave Armstrong's page on the papacy has more Honorius information and is part of his wider, most excellent Biblical Evidence for Catholicism site.

If, therefore, Honorius is called a heretic, and is anathematized and cast out, it is not for heresy, but for connivance towards heretics. And expressly in this sense was the intention of the Council interpreted by the Emperor Constantine, who was not only present at the Council, but took part in it. In the same sense did St. Leo interpret it, who, having carefully examined the Acts of the Council and conferred with the legates who presided over it, approved them and translated them into Latin. Both Constantine and Leo say that Honorius was condemned, not because he taught error, but because he had favored and strengthened heretics, and had, not stained the Church himself, but suffered it to be distained by others. THE SUPPOSED FALL OF HONORIUS AND HIS CONDEMNATION
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So much for scholarly objectivity. You give four citations:

1. © This Rock, Catholic Answers, P.O. Box 17490, San Diego, CA 92177, (619) 541-1131.

2. The Papacy and Infallibility: Keys of the Kingdom

This material will now be available only in my book A Biblical Defense of Catholicism.

To find out more about that book, and to order it directly from the publisher (1stBooks Library ), follow the link to my Catholic Apologetics: Books and Tapes page.

A sales pitch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are you serious?

3. Created by DAVE ARMSTRONG, Catholic Apologist and Free-Lance Writer, Joyful Husband, Daddy, & Celtic-American, Nature-, History- and Music-Lover

4. THE SUPPOSED FALL OF HONORIUS AND HIS CONDEMNATION by J. H. R. American Catholic Quarterly Review, v.7, 1882, pp.162-8 Electronic version Copyright © 1997, Classica Media, Inc.
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Do you read this stuff? Really read it?

The usual Apologist response is rather typical:

Ex. "What argument can be drawn from the condemnation of Honorius against the infallibility of the Pope?"

Of course, this is misdirection. The question is: Was Pope Honorius I condemmed as a heretic by an Ecumenical Council?

The answer: YES