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The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)
Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^
| 3/24/01
| AP
Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.
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Thread 162
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TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: christianlist; michaeldobbs
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To: nobdysfool
You actually proved my point. Jesus left us the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is in the Catholic Church, the one that He founded in the Bible.
And no, being around for 2000 years is not the prerequisite; its that the Church began 2000 years ago with Jesus' official stamp of approval, and has been passing down through Apostolic succession the teachings of Christ since then. No Protestant denomination can claim anything remotely close to that.
To: nobdysfool
you must know Jesus intimately and personally and directly. Somehow, I don't think the Catholic Church is encouraging that. It's not a part of their established Dogma, as far as I've been able to discern. It wasn't until the 20th century that the Mass was conducted in a parishioner's native language, it was in Latin, which no one speaks on a daily basis. Also, I wasn't aware that one of the qualifications for acceptance of authority to speak on spiritual matters was a 2000 year life-span. That alone would invalidate any of your other sources, and leave you only with Jesus Christ as your basis of authority, which you obviously are not following.God desires a personal relationship with each of His people. That's what Jesus died for, to reconcile us to God, so we could have fellowship with Him. Anything that puts something or someone between God and any of His people is not scriptural, and contrary to the teachings of Jesus, the Apostles, and the Word of God.
HEAR! HEAR! T h i n k - a b o u t- i t.
To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
Is the prayer the Hail Mary ever said in the name of Jesus, or for that matter any Catholic prayer? Good grief. And you claim to once have been Catholic???
As a Catholic, surely you must have said the Ave Maria (Hail Mary). This prayer is all about Jesus. Do the words "blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus." mean anything to you at all? How about "holy Mary, mother of God"? This is proclaiming that Jesus was God even before his human birth.
As far as your comment "or for that matter, any Catholic prayer" did you not once attend Mass (and pay attention)? How many times are the words "through Jesus Christ, our Lord" proclaimed at the end the Liturgical prayers?
I'm beginning to believe that supposedly former Catholics know even less about Catholicism than those who have never been. I can understand how fundamentalists get the wrong impressions of Catholicism if they base their understanding on that of former Catholics now in their midst.
To: Conservative til I die
Hi. I had to butt in on the conversation at this point:
That's it, use His name in vain, that really establishes your point.
My bad. I will hit Confession and ask for forgiveness. We are all imperfect.
This is what I was making reference to yesterday. Catholics treat sin flippantly at times...some is serious; some is not so serious...But ALL sin is serious in the sight of God. What IS the cathoic definition of sin, anyway? I'll bet that it is not the Romans 3:23 view of sin.
To: OLD REGGIE
Mirriam Webster count*less (adjective)
First appeared 1588
: too numerous to be counted : MYRIAD, MANY
It does not mean most, not now, not ever.
So what does countless millions mean? Millions upon millions upon millions upon millions upon...
Besides, your argument against the Church was based upon the supposition that it does not teach the laity about God. This isn't even remotely true, our whole theology is based upon the belief the Jesus is God.
You see things which are not there. Please read exactly what I have written, not what you believe I am thinking.
Then let us go back to the point you first made about the Church I firmly believe the RCC is the most dangerous to it's body of "faithful". I questioned you about what was wrong with Catholics and you responded I believe there countless millions of Catholics in this world who have no idea who the Lord is... What the "Official Church Teaching" is, it is of no matter if the "people" don't have any idea what it is. This is what I believe is dangerous. Then I said Your silly argument that the RCC is bad because some people might not understand it, is true. But, you are missing the point.
If the official Church Teaching is fine then what is the problem? That to meany people don't know what that teaching is?
In order for your argument against the Church to be serious you have to prove that a) most Catholics don't know God, and b) the Catholic Magisterium wants it that way
How in the world can you come to such a conclusion? Please get help from another source before you attempt an answer.
Simple if the RCC is "the most dangerous to it's body of 'faithful'" because there are "countless millions of Catholics in this world who have no idea who the Lord is" than the problem, assuming "a)" is true, is that the Magisterium doesn't want people to know God. If "a)" isn't true, as I was trying to prove, you have no argument.
To: Conservative til I die
Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, Seventh Day Adventism, Moonies, Mormons, the old Worldwide Church of God, Oneness Pentecostalism, Snake-handling Pentecostalism, Jim Jones, Christadelphianism, Swedenborgianism, and Branch Davidianism are all descendants of the Protestant Reformation, and late ones at that. So there were no heretical teachings prior to 1517? All cults, etc. came on the scene only AFTER the Protestant Reformation? That is not true. But that is what you are insinuating....that until that time, Christianity was pure, and that when Protestantism reared its ugly head, all sorts of error resulted. Not true. Error and cults have always existed---of course there is more right now than ever before with all the passage of time. But it's not due to Protestantism....It's due to the pride of man not wiling to subject itself to the rule of God in the heart.
To: Conservative til I die
But let's get real, this is not what Protestants are talking about when they blast Catholics. They either a) take these ignorant Catholics and stereotype the whole Church through them, or b) pretend that the Catholic Church teaches as doctrine that we must pray to a statue or worship Mary and the saints (which is what we are really doing by praying to them). ...and catholics don't do the same to protestants? You guys stereotype us constantly. It's because each of us is representative of the whole group in the eyes of outsiders, whether we're a correct representative or not. However, I do believe that most of us Protestants on this thread DO educate ourselves about catholicism, availing ourselves of the resources on the internet and in books. Too bad catholics won't look seriously into what and why protestants disagree with much of their religion and religious practices.
To: hopefulpilgrim
Actually, us Catholics are pagans, as you guys suspected all along, so we have some wiiiiiild definitions of what sin is, believe you me!
I mean, after I sacrifice a bull to my statue of Mary, we go out and drink the blood of Jesus, I mean, the real blood! Like a cannibal!
To: Titanites
First off, I think most of these "former" Catholics are full of BS, right off the bat. Most of them were never Catholics.
Its a classic propoganda tactic, kind of like when Liberals disrupt this board and post things that mirror their stereotypical version of conservatism, and then turn around and say "See, I told you those conservatives were all racists!"
I've seen this done by Jehovah's Witnesses myself. Someone will go on som board and defend the JWs by saying "I'm not a JW (they never state what their actual religion is) but I've never met a more pious, kind, or God-fearing group of folks. They gave me a free copy of their New World Translation (a highly tainted translation) of the Bible and might I say, it is the greatest version I've ever read." I mean, its prety obvious what that person really is.
Second, let's assume some of these people actually are former Catholics. All of them said they never read their bible, never attended Mass, never did this, never did that.... Wait, so its our fault or the Church's fault that they were sh!tty Catholics?
To: Pelayo
Well first you have to concede that sacraments are necessary. Necessary for what? Please clarify the question.
To: Conservative til I die
Look, just go read the words of the Hail Mary and explain to me how this is praying TO Mary....No one is praying to Mary!!!!!!!!! Damnit, why won't you let that bone go! Pray: to ask for, to implore or beseech by prayer or supplication.
When you say: "Hail, Mary..." aren't you speaking to her and IMPLORING her to hear you and give you what you ask of her? When you ASK HER to pray for you, you are imploring her to do this for you...in other words, you are PRAYING TO HER. I cannot put it any more plainly. You are praying to Mary.
To: hopefulpilgrim
Nope, I am not saying cults or heretics never existed. What I am saying, is that the Catholic Church moved quickly to refute, excommunicate, and declare these groups anathema. Almost none of them exist in any form today, and if they do, they are universally laughed at. This is because of the authority of the Church.
Under Protestantism, these groups have managed to flourish and multiply exponentially, spiritually harming people by the millions. This is directly due to Protestantism having no final arbiter. One lunatic's (like Mary Baker Eddy) ideas are as valid as another's (Martin Luther), since both of them have appealed to the Scriptures, meditated, prayed, and decided that their beliefs are the TRUTH .
That was my point all along.
To: Conservative til I die
Jeez, and you think us "Catlicks" are wrong for saying there is no salvation outside the Church... Thanks for admitting the truth about the false RC doctrine, most other RC's won't admit that this is part of your real teachings. I'll give you an A for honesty and F on correctly handling the truth of God's word.
To: hopefulpilgrim
Uh dude, reading a Jack Chick comic, flipping through Dave Hunt's garbage, or the bible of anti-Catholicism, Roman Catholicism, does not make you educated about Catholicism.
And furthermore, ANY AND EVERY Protestant that goes on about 1) praying to statues, 2) praying to Mary, and 3) praying to saints is not educated, but an IDIOT who should laughed at, pointed at, and have people pay 25 cents for the privilige of poking sticks at them through the bars of their cage at a carnival. Period.
To: hopefulpilgrim
When you say: "Hail, Mary..." aren't you speaking to her and IMPLORING her to hear you and give you what you ask of her?
Heh, I guess that angel was a real stupid ass for saying to Mary "Hail, favored one!" in Luke 1:28, huh.
Oh let me guess, that scripture is no longer considered inspired right?
To: Conservative til I die
Freepmail coming your way.
To: Conservative til I die
You have a point about a final arbiter. Many protestent secs have strayed an unbeliebable distance from the teachings of Christ (orgaining lesbian preists and all ) in order to be politically correct.
having a Pope that is a decent man is a really big plus for Catholics.
of course there have been Popes that were mass murderers but that hasn't been the case for quite some time. Now the Pope is a stregnth to all of us who want to keep Christian values not just Catholics.
To: Conservative til I die
Jesus left us the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is in the Catholic Church... Are you saying that the Holy Spirit doesn't reside in any other Christian church besides yours? If so, which one's? Thanks.
To: Conservative til I die
Nobdysfool wrote:
Your idea of respect to Jesus' Mother is a cultural construct, not a scriptural one. True, and IMO, its roots go way, way, way, way back to Egyptian mythology.
To: Conservative til I die
Hail Mary,
Found in Lk 1:28
Which Bible?
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