The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
TNS Archives

[Havoc]

Sorry for the double post.

[OLD REGGIE]

The Catholic teaching seems just fine. Now let's see what conclusions you draw from it.

First: You must know I don't believe there is such a place as Purgatory.

Second: We all know the abuse of Indulgences were the cause of great scandal in the Church.

Third: My skeptical nature causes me to believe they (and Purgatory) were "invented" for the sole purpose of raising money.

Fourth: I believe the whole thing is abused.

Fifth: I believe innocent youth are being "set up" to accept the practice as a normal thing.

Sixth: I forget.

[vmatt]

If they are illusions that does not add a point to existing. Only if they are real is existance meaningful.

How can there be meaningful existance in this illusion we call life? At any moment we could drop dead. At any moment a child dies. How is it real when God already knows our end? The real existance begins at our own resurrection. That is paramount and why Paul stated the following:

1 Corinthians 15

19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

[Joyful Wisdom]

Madam Becky I must have missed your reference to Romans 8:29,

8:29: For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren. 30: And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified.

The bolded part seems to imply a limited number. Maybe the Apostles or early Christians?

[Havoc]

The devil is in the details, ma'am.

That's why it's necessary for the devil to confuse the details. (ei. 'Dang it, your in an English Church - Speak Latin!')

[ksen]

It makes about as much sense as trying to prove purgatory or a fiery hell exists. All tortured logic.

I hope you don't mind my asking, but are you a member of a particular church/denomination that teaches this doctrine (if so which one?) or did you come up with it through your own studying?

-ksen

[vmatt]

I hope you don't mind my asking, but are you a member of a particular church/denomination that teaches this doctrine (if so which one?) or did you come up with it through your own studying?

No, no and yes.

[vmatt]

I hope you don't mind my asking, but are you a member of a particular church/denomination that teaches this doctrine (if so which one?) or did you come up with it through your own studying?

No, no and yes.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

See post #2987.

Becky

[OLD REGGIE]

Others like to think of the Catholic Church named in the creeds as the "invisible" Church of all believers. They also take offense at an unmodified "Catholic" being used by us.

The creed I read, and accept, would make me a member of the "catholic" Church. BBBBBBig difference.

I agree most of us know the term "Catholic Church" refers to the Roman Church. It does appear it is the height of arrogance to appropriate the word "Catholic" to yourself and to the total exclusion of of all others.

Where did the use of "One Holy and Apostolic" originate?

[Joyful Wisdom]

God knows exactly how we will react to any given situation, but we don't, so we have to experience it personally to understand later on why his way is perfect, to avoid God having another problem to deal with such as Satan, who was made perfect, but didn't understand what a blessing it was, and no one can, until they get to see both sides.

I disagree that without experiencing both sides you can not appreciate being perfect. The other angels were the same as Lucifer but the all did not rebel. Obviously they appreciated it.

Also, if we have to experience it personally it does not explain the purpose of those who do not go to heaven unless they are automatons without out free will controled by God to make us understand his way.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

The devil is in the details, ma'am.

Madam Becky

Why all the formalities all of a sudden.:)

Becky

[Havoc]

Do you wonder why the don't?

No, I'm quite clear on why people don't listen to the word of God - whether I speak it or any of my Christian brothers speaks it. It is a stumbling block and a Rock (petra) of offense to those who have their own view of things or have accepted someone's philosophy. Those who follow philosophy prefer it to the Word of God and defend it more staunchly than the word of God.

[hopefulpilgrim]

HI 808bass!

Your scenario has undoubtedly occurred from time to time, but I would think the actual number of times it has occurred is relatively low. Again, I can't stress #2 enough. It's usually not a case of the person reading Scripture and finding something through the Spirit. It's usually a case of hearing something or reading something that "tickles their fancy." So, it's not a case of them not trusting authority, but of them trusting the wrong authority, namely, media-driven professional Christians.

I couldn't agree more with your take on this. I've seen this happen a *lot*!! Especially the part about hearing or reading something that tickles their fancy, or as Scripture puts it, "tickles their ears." This was (hopefully past tense for good) true of me at one time or another. You are so right. Thanks for your insight.

Hopefulpilgrim (Titus 2:11-14)

[Joyful Wisdom]

How can there be meaningful existance in this illusion we call life? At any moment we could drop dead. At any moment a child dies. How is it real when God already knows our end? The real existance begins at our own resurrection. That is paramount and why Paul stated the following:

I have never met a nihilist who believes the bible. Will wonders never cease

[Havoc]

Where did the use of "One Holy and Apostolic" originate?

Conciet? A deep and wide pit which cannot be measured?

[Titanites]

No, I'm quite clear on why people don't listen to the word of God

Maybe you're confused. I was talking about why people don't listen to you. Or are you implying that what you say is the Word of God?

[SoothingDave]

Ya'll never watched rudolph as kids?

It's been a while. Now with Sarah give mea year or two and I'll have the whole set of them on DVD. "I'm Mr Heat Miser, I'm mister sun..."

Sin is death in the spirit for those who die in sin. Purgatory is an illusion that pulls the teeth out of that bumble and makes people think they can make it if only their sins aren't that big

Purgatory is the consequence of the sins. Thinking that Catholics believe or teach that you can be a little bit bad and "don't worry Purgatory will take care of it" is just as much a caricature as a Catholic thinking that Protestants believe that they are saved by "faith" and can sin all they want.

They are both unfair depictions of what the other believes.

SD

[JohnnyM]

oh my gosh dude. That Scripture is totally OUT OF CONTEXT!!!

1 Cor 15-19:
Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.

What Paul is saying that if Christ did not raise from the dead. That if you don't believe in the resurrection, then your faith and hope are worhtless, because there is nothing after this life. He is not saying in any way that this is our present state, unless you don't beleive in the resurrection, and if you don't then you are not a Christian.

JM

[Joyful Wisdom]

Sorry Madam Becky missed another one of your posts. I believe your interpretation of Romans 8:29 is reasonable, but I do not see it that way. The parts after verse 29 seems to imply that God's gifts can not be rejects because he gave them to us and we have no power over God. His love is for all whether you want it or not. Sort of like a stalker but without the danger. Maybe we are saved whether we want to be or not.