The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
TNS Archives

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Do you know it is possible to say the Hail Mary in less than 5 seconds if you "speed talk"?

WOW, your right, I just tried it:)

Becky

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Heh heh, I invited Mack to come up to Milwaukee for the Harley Davidson 100 year reunion. When he does, a minyan of Sicilian Jews are gonna take him and dunk him in the mikveh. I wonder if he's circumcised...? ;o)

Yeah and I'm bringing 9 of my Biker gentile buds to throw you and the other 9 Sicilian Jews into the mysterious mikveh waters, and even if you guys are not circumcised, were gonna do it again. :)

[OLD REGGIE]

I think TRD and all rational folks here know you are using the name Constantine in lieu of having an actual argument. You like to try to get my goat, and any old nonsense will do.

I am in partial agreement with you. I do enjoy getting your goat. However; is isn't necessary for me to twist your words, or tell outright lies, for me to get your goat. It is all for your good my son. Don't forget, I am only trying to toughen your hide so, when you grow up, you will be more suited to face the real world.

As for TRD, I don't believe he has any idea why I tweak you on Constantine. His mission is to lecture me and speak to me from his position of intellectual superiority. To actually know my "Constantine" ploy would confuse him. He doesn't know that I truly believe your brand of Christianity dates from the time of Constantine.

[OLD REGGIE]

I think TRD and all rational folks here know you are using the name Constantine in lieu of having an actual argument. You like to try to get my goat, and any old nonsense will do.

I am in partial agreement with you. I do enjoy getting your goat. It is all for your good my son. Don't forget, I am only trying to toughen your hide so, when you grow up, you will be more suited to face the real world.

As for TRD, I don't believe he has any idea why I tweak you on Constantine. He doesn't know that I truly believe your brand of Christianity dates from the time of Constantine.

[RobbyS]

What's your time on the Our Father, or does the (uncanonical)doxology slow you down?

[eastsider]

And I didn't go to "priest school" for 7 years.

Back when, Latin was a two-year "highschool" requirement (at least it was in Jesuit highschools) -- which, I believe, is the whole point you've been trying to make.

[RobbyS]

Latin and Greek were universally taught in secondary schools until after the turn of the 20th Century, because the classics were the basis of a "gentleman's" education until about that time. Winston Churchill lost out on his chance to go to university because he couldn't master it and had to be put into the English form. (slow track). Then there used to be something called Boston Latin School, where the smart kids went. Latin only stopped be relevant about 50 years ago when Rock and Roll came in. I think there must be some connection: Latin goes down, the culture goes now.

[eastsider]

I graduated from a Jesuit high school post-Vatican II, and Latin was still a two-year requirement. My high school was, however, a Prep school.

[RobbyS]

Didn't it used to be a four year requirement? Anyway, the utility of a common language is such that one always appears. English helps hold India together and it has become the lingua franca in Europe, especially since the Fall of the Wall. That's why bilingual developments in the Southwest should be curbed. Racialism is discouraged where one language is dominant. By race, most of the people of Alsace-Lorraine are German, but very few speak it as their first language.

[eastsider]

When Charlemagne was crowned in 800 A.D., the acculturation of his kingdom was effected by importing all things Roman, including Gregorian chant, from which all western music developed (even Rock and Roll : ) I'm not certain whether he adopted Latin as the universal language, but I suspect he did. (I value your input on this one, Goetz.)

[RobbyS]

Alcuin, Charlemagne's "cultural minister," did in fact accomplish this. I remember the story about his "Boss" struggling to learn to read Latin. But the cultural prestige of Rome had earlier held sway over the Germans, and the Arian occupiers of Italy referred to Catholics as "Romans." I think that the Byzantines also called themselves "Roman" even after they stopped speaking Latin.

[Proud2BAmerican]

If he had been delivered of it, he would not have returned to drinking.

----

Then, until the day he died, you would never have known if he was delivered or not from the sin. And so, I guess you would never be able to say that a person who *was* a homosexual had ceased to be one, because up until the day they die, they could potentially commit a homosexual act again (thus proving they were never actually free of the control of that sin). Sorta like being saved, from an NC standpoint -- if the person perseveres till the day they die, then they were saved all along. If they backslide or turn away from the faith, then they were never really saved in the first place.

[Proud2BAmerican]

So Mormons and JWs are Christian, they're just heretic Christians?

[american colleen]

Actually, my experience dates back more than 50 years, but, yes, I meant it for then and now. In fact, the Archbishop of Boston, Cardinal Cushing, couldn't even speak Latin. He had trouble enough speaking English. I learned how to "speed talk" from him. Do you know it is possible to say the Hail Mary in less than 5 seconds if you "speed talk"?

Just talked to my father - a 65 year old grad of BC - he told me Cushing could converse in Latin and of course said Mass in Latin during my father's years there. He also told me that Cushing had a commanding voice (but sounded nasally/Bostonian) in English.

My Irish and Newfie relatives always tell me to "slow down" when I talk - supposedly a Bostonian trait???

I took 2 years of Latin in HS and can follow the Latin Mass just fine - I also use the 1962 Missal - Latin on one page and English on the facing page. Not a problem for anyone if you are so inclined... I remember the nuns in HS conversing to each other completely in Latin... amazing.

[RobbyS]

I have an old(1966)My Sunday Missal, which I picked up at Goose AFB In Labrador. (That's where I met my wife). The Latin Mass is in the back. I was just looking at it, and I realized that over the course of years that I had memorized almost all of the Latin and can translate all of it. So I learned it by heart, and so, I guess did many Catholics who knew no other Latin.

[Proud2BAmerican]

It is the manifestation of God in our physical world.

----

But it existed, at least at some point, in Heaven, and so was not in our physical world, which is part of what you use to define the Holy Spirit? Or are you saying that the Holy Spirit is the manifestation of God, whether it is in Heaven or on Earth? (In which case, I would ask you -- Is God not now manifest in Heaven because the Holy Spirit is down here on Earth?)

[Proud2BAmerican]

Jesus was physical while here on earth. He's spiritual now.

---

So what happened to His body when He rose from the dead? Why wasn't it in the tomb, if He suddenly became "spiritual"?

[Proud2BAmerican]

The written word does not change, oral traditions and traditions made by men have a tendency to change over the years.

What would lead you to believe that God could not protect oral traditions, but was only able to preserve written traditions?

[ksen]

Back when, Latin was a two-year "highschool" requirement (at least it was in Jesuit highschools) -- which, I believe, is the whole point you've been trying to make.

I went to public High School in NH in the mid-1980's. They still offered Latin as one of the courses to fulfill the two-year foreign language requirement. I took two years of it but now I wish I had paid more attention.

-ksen

[american colleen]

You must have been stationed in Labrador? I haven't been there, just to Newfoundland, St. John's and the outposts around there mainly.

Does your wife still have family in Labrador? Lots of my family used to go and fish there in the fishing season - a hard life, for sure.

I like the missals - too bad we got away from them.