The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

To: SoothingDave

LOL Actually it's more like "There are teams of monks and nuns in far off places praying night and day for the deliverance of all of the poor souls in Purgatory. They're going to pray for your loved ones anyway, don't you think you could spare a few cents a day so they can afford to heat their porridge up to 'tepid'?"

And, of course, they pray individually for each "soul" on their list. It is just Protestand propaganda which claims they throw all "intentions" in one big bucket and pray for the bucketfull.

2,961 posted on 10/26/2001 6:50:08 AM PDT by OLD REGGIE

To: hopefulpilgrim

I can't believe we are even talking about such a concept as "purgatory." My "purgatory" took place at Calvary when Jesus suffered and died in my place. This is not a license to sin.....no, just the opposite...Calvary gives the followers of Christ the motivation to live for Him. 2 Cor. 5:14,15:

Your "purgatory" took place on Calvary? I fear you don't know what purgatory is. Answer me this: are you now perfect, without any sin, desire to sin, selfishness, anything unholy?

Will you be perfect when you are in Heaven? Or will you just go as you are and be "declared" perfect? Guilty, but acquitted, or actually truly innocent?

2,962 posted on 10/26/2001 6:53:58 AM PDT by SoothingDave

Would you consider this a fair story illustrating Sola Scriptura in action?

It's reasonably fair. The points I would make about it are the following.

Do you have any idea why some people here don't think it's fair? Won't even address it?

1) This guy seems to be incredibly individualistic. Where are his mentors, his friends, his Sunday School teacher, his parents, etc... Obviously, to some Proddies this individualism is an attraction of the "system." But, I would think most Proddies would listen to their church's counsel (in the context of relationships w/ them) and advice on doctrinal matters.

I did show him asking for help from Church and friends. It is also true as you say that most folks will listen to their Church's counsel. I was speaking more to the occasion when an individual has to put Sola Scriptura into action. People certainly change Churches when they have a dispute with te pastor.

2) I have never come across a person who came up with a doctrinal idea in the manner you proposed. I have had countless experiences with people who hear a message on the radio, or see a preacher on TV, or get a tract or a book from a friend and then suddenly "see the truth in Scripture." I don't think this is a problem inherent in Sola Scriptura, but a problem inherent in the whole Christian media scene. Books and tapes are sold and reputations made on doctrinal "innovations." I can't count the number of times that I've discussed doctrinal issues with people and they counter my scriptural exegesis with, "But Kenneth Copeland-Hagen [insert your least favorite prophet of Tulsa/Baal here] says...." So I don't think that the occurences of something like that happening are very high.

This is a good point. Of course most folks don't develop their ideas alone in a room with the Scripture. But they should go and "test" the ideas against Scripture. I honestly didn't think of the media effect. A few hundred years ago it wouldn't have been a huge factor and I was trying to come up with a truly generic situation.

3) I don't know how much time people who come up with new doctrines spend in prayer. But I have grave and deep-seated suspicions. If they really spend that much time in prayer, you think God would actually reveal the truth to them. And I don't think there's a lot of "new truths" out there to be revealed (anymore than there are new Traditions to be developed).

I think that's my line.

Thank you for the thoughtful response. It is good to know that I can "reasonbly" understand the process of my "enemies."

2,963 posted on 10/26/2001 7:01:29 AM PDT by SoothingDave

To: SoothingDave

True. But some people think that if I give the priest $50 to do my wedding or a funeral that I am "buying" access to the sacraments.

I would hope the "some" people you speak of are few. Very, very few.

I do remember, in my old RC days, carrying a pocketful of change to throw into the various "collections". The first time I went to a service in a Protestant Church I was amazed that they had only one collection and that the plate was full of paper money. The Protestant and Catholic population in that town were of the same economic status so that doesn't explain the difference. Do you have an idea why the "high pressure" money tactic actually resulted in fewer $'s than the "low pressure" technique?

2,964 posted on 10/26/2001 7:07:32 AM PDT by OLD REGGIE

Purgatory pulls the teeth of the bumble in the eyes of the unknowing - they can't see the bumble just put blackout on his teeth after sharpening them...

This has to win Sentence of the Month. I defy anyone here to tell me what this means.

2,965 posted on 10/26/2001 7:09:02 AM PDT by SoothingDave

To: Joyful Wisdom

You're so polite with your "Mr." addresses. It's refreshing to see that kind of repsect here.

Carry on.

2,966 posted on 10/26/2001 7:14:27 AM PDT by al_c

The Protestant and Catholic population in that town were of the same economic status so that doesn't explain the difference. Do you have an idea why the "high pressure" money tactic actually resulted in fewer $'s than the "low pressure" technique?

Catholics are notoriously stingy. Many have apparently internalized that old "they have all those fancy palaces and priceless artwork they don't need any more money" thing.

2,967 posted on 10/26/2001 7:14:53 AM PDT by SoothingDave

If we die while squandering our inheritance (eternal life), where would that leave us?

When we are "saved" God gives us His eternal life, which is an infinite commodity. So I have to ask, if we can squander it, just how infinite was it in the first place.

If we could squander it what kind of assurance would we have that we had a home awaiting us in Heaven?

"[12]He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. [13]These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." - I Jn 5:12-13

If we could squander it or turn our back on it after receiving it, how could we ever know?

BTW, glad to see you back. I hope your wife and child are doing better. Thanks, for the Scripture readings.

-ksen

2,968 posted on 10/26/2001 7:15:47 AM PDT by ksen

How many of us, believe God already knows whether or not we will be in his kingdom?

Sorry I missed this yesterday.
God knows all.

2,969 posted on 10/26/2001 7:18:05 AM PDT by al_c

"If we die while squandering our inheritance (eternal life), ..."

Ah that is where you are confused. Eternal life is the free gift and not the inheritance. Our inheritance is the reward we store up in heaven. Like the servants with the talents.

JM

2,970 posted on 10/26/2001 7:19:04 AM PDT by JohnnyM

so if its talking about those that are in apostasy, can they then be restored or are they lost forever???

JM

2,971 posted on 10/26/2001 7:20:26 AM PDT by JohnnyM

To: hopefulpilgrim

Re: #2819

Perhaps my wording isn't the best,

Makes sense to me and seems to go along with my #2956. Thanks for your input.

2,972 posted on 10/26/2001 7:23:55 AM PDT by al_c

To: SoothingDave

Good morning Dave!

Answer me this: are you now perfect, without any sin, desire to sin, selfishness, anything unholy?

Can I answer? No, no, no, no, no.

Thanks.

-ksen

2,974 posted on 10/26/2001 7:29:42 AM PDT by ksen

To: SoothingDave

I wonder what angelo and Steven are doing? Do you think they're itching? They certainly missed some thought provoking dialog yesterday.

Do you think they are considering this as their abstinense, or pennants? I personally think it would be easier to fast. LOL (^g^)

2,975 posted on 10/26/2001 7:30:07 AM PDT by JHavard

"Theology has no complete answer as to how, or even whether anyone may be damned forever.." Wilhelm 289

Havoc, throw this book away if you actually own it, or don't refer to it again. This is not Catholic teaching, the NO + I notwithstanding. This is, at best, "universalism" the heresy that all will go to Heaven.

The hint is the word "modern" and the copyright date of 1973.

2,976 posted on 10/26/2001 7:32:09 AM PDT by SoothingDave

Well sure, but his question was specifically about bishops, not Apostles.

So Bishops must be appointed, but it is alright to democratically elect an Apostle?

;^)

-ksen

2,977 posted on 10/26/2001 7:32:47 AM PDT by ksen

Thank you. What about the rest of the questions?

2,978 posted on 10/26/2001 7:32:55 AM PDT by SoothingDave

So Bishops must be appointed, but it is alright to democratically elect an Apostle?

I thought "casting lots" was a game of chance?

2,979 posted on 10/26/2001 7:34:54 AM PDT by SoothingDave

To: SoothingDave

Purgatory pulls the teeth of the bumble in the eyes of the unknowing - they can't see the bumble just put blackout on his teeth after sharpening them...

I don't know. I kinda liked the one about you chucking your parachute at him on the way down the cliff. In response to this, I would say, "We've already got one. Issa very nice."

2,980 posted on 10/26/2001 7:36:00 AM PDT by the808bass

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