The Neverending Story (The New Christian Chronicles)

Southern Baptists ending talks with Catholic Church ^ | 3/24/01 | AP

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Thread 162
TNS Archives

[vmatt]

Ephesians 1

1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

That it was a place where you burned as if you were in hell, but you did eventually get out. Suffering.

Becky

[ksen]

In response to JohnnyM: This made me think of the parable of the prodigal son. I wonder ... if this son had died while out squandering his inheritance, what would have been his final destination? But he did return and repent for his sins. His father accepted him home again and yadda yadda yadda ... we all know the rest of this one.

First of all, if the son had died while squandering his inheritance, would that have made him lose his sonship? I mean he still would have been his father's son.

Secondly, I have always been taught that it is "dangerous" to try to get more out of a parable than what is there. The parables were told to present one biblical truth. This one was given to illustrate the fact that God would restore our fellowship with Him no matter where we find ourselves as long as we repent and return to Him. (That's fellowship, not salvation)

-ksen

[SoothingDave]

I have to be honest. I don't really know what Reggie defined Sola Scriptura as.

Post 2730. He quotes a definition that most folks here (including me) seem to agree with. I would like to know why his definition disagrees with my story of Mr C.

On your story, Mr. C sounds alot like me, I tried hard to reconcile what I was reading in the bible to catholic teachings. But it can't be done. So I left and found a church that interprets the bible the way I do. And I know I'm right because I know it's from the HS. But I can't tell you why. I know that sounds like a cop out, that is how I use to feel about that kind of remark.

So if it sounds like what you went through, my story must be somewhat reasonable?

As far as the term sola scriptura I think it is a, ohhh, slanderous term, that is used by catholics. Sorry, that's how I feel about it.

Catholics didn't invent it, it was the original reformers who crusaded for "Sola Fides, Sola Scriptura, Sola Gratia"

SD

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Rom. 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predetinate to be conformed to the image of his Son that he might be the first=born among many brethren.

God did not predestinate us to be saved, he predestinated believers to be as Christ because he foreknew them as accepters of their own free will to his gift. We have to be as Christ to get to heaven, we can't be as Christ, so God makes us that way.

Becky

[JHavard]

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Thank you, these are great scriptures.

[SoothingDave]

That it was a place where you burned as if you were in hell, but you did eventually get out. Suffering.

My answer was windy (so what else is new) but I meant to convey that "yes" there would be suffering. Our understanding of Purgatory has progressed where we can understand the whys of the suferring, the cause of the suffering. There may not be literal fire, but there will be anguish.

SD

[OLD REGGIE]

Sorry Mr. Old Reggie did not mean to imply it was you. Throughout this tome, interpretations (usually by Catholics) that are rational but not necessarily true are dismissed for relying on more then just the words in the Bible. For example the whole Jesus' brother debate. The Catholic interpretation is reasonable (not the same thing as being true) but dismissed, because 'brother means brother'. The Catholic interpretation is consistant with Sola Scriptura. Again sorry if I implied actions on your point that is untrue.

There is nothing to be sorry about. I welcome your thoughts.

Now; it is my belief that some Catholic interpretation is consistant with Sola Scriptura. Some, I think, requires a very vivid, extra-Biblical interpretation. That is the reason the doctrines of "Sacred Tradition" and the "Magisterium" were developed. ( SCRIPTURE IS NOT REQUIRED IN ALL INSTANCES)

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Well:) I find being grouped with the "reformers" as offensive. How many times have I said I'm not a protestant, my beliefs do not come out of the reformation, but are from the church Christ started.

Becky

[ksen]

How many of us, believe God already knows whether or not we will be in his kingdom?

Yes. I believe that.

-ksen

[SoothingDave]

I am in 100% agreement with that statement. Sola Scriptura is not subjective (as SD and most RCs believe) but objective.

I too am in agreement with Reggie's statement on what Sola Scriptura is. I am trying to get at how it is actually practiced. What do you mean that Sola Scriptura is "objective"?

Can you relate it to my story of Mr C? Did he behave in a "subjective" manner, and if so, how could he have behaved "objectively"

SD

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Well:) again, you are differening with something else that someone said on these threads. Someone else said that purgatory would not be a place of suffering, but a place of cleansing, no suffering. Don't ask me, I didn't presue it. I just wondered what your take on it was.

Now much to my dismay I have to leave for awhile to go help my daughter and daughter-in-law, build fence. See you this afternoon.

Becky

[SoothingDave]

I find being grouped with the "reformers" as offensive. How many times have I said I'm not a protestant, my beliefs do not come out of the reformation, but are from the church Christ started.

My apologies. I certainly don't mean offense. But even if we don't use the "Sola" term, you still believe that the Bible is the rule of faith. How should we describe this belief?

SD

[OLD REGGIE]

Yes!

(That doesn't mean I don't sometimes puzzle over the process.)

[al_c]

Thanks for your responses. Unfortunately, my time is up today. I have to go home and tend to a sick wife and child. I'll check back in tomorrow, God willing.

Have a great day, everyone!

[ksen]

Thank you for that defintion from Tony Warren. It was very well put.

-ksen

[OLD REGGIE]

As far as the term sola scriptura I think it is a, ohhh, slanderous term, that is used by catholics. Sorry, that's how I feel about it.

Becky

It is used by some to slander and twist. Some always have their "Apologist" hat on and some make an honest attempt to understand. It is pretty easy to sort them out.

[ksen]

I'm sorry to hear that your family is ill. ;^(
I will be praying for them, and for your strength as well.

I hope you don't mind prayers from this Baptist.

;^)

-ksen

[OLD REGGIE]

What were you taught that was different from what I said about Purgatory?

An old war story. Don't get mad at me.

My grandfather told me that, when his father died, they asked the Priest if he was in heaven. The Priest said; "not yet, he is in Purgatory, a few "Special Intention" Prayers will go a long way to get him out. (Of course there were $'s associated with the "Special Intentions".)

After several iterations, and the Priest telling them he "was a little farther out" they quit the "Special Intentions" after they were assured he had his head and shoulders out.

When the Priest inquired why they had quit the process his mother told the Priest; "any place "Pap" can get his head and shoulders out of he can, sure as hell, pull his ass out of".