Posted on 10/15/2001 6:54:40 AM PDT by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
I agree. And God will reward those (including those who previously got "saved") who want to be without Him by granting their wish. A permanent life without God.
SD
Pardon me for jumping in, and please don't be offended, but this statement sounds remarkably Catholic to me. Your faith is in Christ who has redeemed you...your faith is not in your faith.
It seems like only yesterday that it was just me who didn't know "the Spirit." Now it's the whole gash darn Catholic Church.
I guess your abridged version of Scripture doesn't feature the passage where Jesus (that's God) told Peter (the Pope) to feed his sheep. If this isn't the "passing on" of shepherdhood to Peter then I guess I really don't have the Spirit.
SD
No. Two different things. I can be sure that God's grace is permanent and forever, but that does not mean I am assured of receiving it. I have accepted Christ and I believe I am saved, but I'm not one to be completely assured of it until my race is run and my life on earth is done. I know God's promise is true, but I'm also highly motivated to do right and to stay on the path.
Then I must have mistaken a whole lot of what the Calvinists said. Seems like a lot of folks here are awfully sure of their salvation. I agree with IMRight. This statement of yours could have come from a Catholic.
SD
I'm sorry, but I'm not sure I understand your point. If it is that my faith is elsewhere than Christ, I assure not. My faith is in Christ.
JWinNC
He said to them: "You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with a Gentile or visit him. But God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean.Acts 10:28.
SD
The child of nature is made so by birth, so is the child of God. The child of nature can have but one birth,the child of God can have but one birth. 1Pet.1:23. If you can understand the difference between the inner and outer man, having a carnal and spiritual nature dwelling in him and that the fleshly or carnal nature is at war wtih the spiritual nature you will no difficulty understanding the subject of the Security of the Believer. Roms. 7:14-25 gives a full description of these two natures.
No person who believes in works for salvation can believe in the security of the believer If we can help God save us, slavation is not whooly of God. If ANY carnal ordinance is necessary to our salvation, then salvation is part by works and part by grace and therefore not wholly of God. In order to obtain salvation we must be willing to surrender all to Jesus. If we surrender our selves to Him, then we become passive in salvation.We turn orselves over to him in repentance, for repentance is a turning away from sin unto God through faith in Jesus, and at this time God saves us in His won way. Acts 3:19 "Be converted." Conversion is God's work, we repent, but God does the converting.
Becky
I'm sorry, but I'm not sure I understand your point. If it is that my faith is elsewhere than Christ, I assure not. My faith is in Christ.
I'm not sure that I can do a better job explaining it than you just did (or than SD is probably doing right now), but I'll try.
Your faith is in Jesus Christ. You are certain that He has done his "part". You believe that you have done your "part" and have hope that you will persevere until the end (not the same thing as "hope the Redskins will win this weekend" - real Scriptural Hope. Your Faith is in Christ, your Hope is in the Spirit continuing the work He has begun and that you will remain true to Him. You have no doubt in His power to save or in the work He has already completed, but you push hard for the prize at the end of the race.
The alternative is that you place your faith in... Faith.
This is what I don't get. Are we truly passive? I realize that we are called to do the work of Christ, to be his arms and legs. But are we passive in this?
SD
I try to avoid the Calvinism VS Arminianism debate. It's hard enough to get Calvinist to agree on what is Calvinism. I count myself as a Calvinist, even though some would think me otherwise. I think it is okay to be sure of your salvation, but there is a wrong way to look at it and a right way to look at it. I am certain of God's Grace, but I am not certain of me.
"I agree with IMRight. This statement of yours could have come from a Catholic."
You could fit what I know about Catholicism into a thimble.
Peace,
JWinNC
Becky
And what a fine thimble it would be!
Seriously, it is better to know little than to carry around huge bags of misconception.
SD
Becky
He said feed them, not "eat them" Lol, Any way, what does Peter have to do with the Catholic Church, I could claim that Moses talks to me every night, but if I can't prove it, it is just so much hot air.
If this isn't the "passing on" of shepherdhood to Peter then I guess I really don't have the Spirit.
Peter fed the Jewish converts, and then died, where did he pass the torch to you? He had never heard of the Catholic Church, and as far as I can see, never went to Rome, so unless you found the torch laying somewhere and claimed it as your own, I don't know where you get any authority whatsoever.
Who me? :-)
SD
I have to concur.
JWinNC
Enjoyable discussion. Gotta go now.
Peace,
JWinNC
There are light years of difference in Sarah wanting nothing to do with you and Sarah disappointing you or failing you.
The wages of sin is death, correct? That's eternal death, btw.
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