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Apparently THIS is what is being taught in school systems in the U.S.

The NJEA(new Jersey's Teacher's Union) is a far-left political action group and its minions use the classroom to promulgate their political views, offering no alternative opinions except from the perspective of attacking and ridiculing them.

Children indocrinated by these far left constitutional reconstructionalists will have their political views warped for life.

PLEASE, visit this site and FREEP this idiot's posting!!

1 posted on 10/14/2001 8:03:46 AM PDT by ZULU
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To: ZULU
The Fourth Amendment protections were destroyed by Congress just the other day, in the name of Anti-Terrorism, why not the Second Amendment also?
2 posted on 10/14/2001 8:07:51 AM PDT by KeepTheEdge
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To: ZULU
Blah, blah, blah.

From my dead hands...
3 posted on 10/14/2001 8:08:11 AM PDT by facedown
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To: ZULU
I "control" my "gun" just fine!
At my last weapons quals, albeit many years ago, yet I can still ride a bike, I hit 38 out of 40 at 50 yds with a .38. I did as well with the .45 and the M-1 at all distances. I was "very controlled" with the shotgun!
Pretty good "gun control" if you ask me.
Bravo Zulu, Zulu.
4 posted on 10/14/2001 8:12:09 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: ZULU
Zulu:

Just sent them a short and scathing note.

Best regards,

Robert Teesdale
www.teesdale.com
5 posted on 10/14/2001 8:12:58 AM PDT by Robert Teesdale
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To: *bang_list
Bang!
6 posted on 10/14/2001 8:13:28 AM PDT by wysiwyg
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To: ZULU
The following twenty-seven words of the Second Amendment have caused quite a bit of confusion for the past two hundred years: A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed (Landau 44).

I have seen also "the right of the INDIVIDUAL" many times in the quoating of the constitution.. Does anyone have information to post to educate the rest of us as to why there are two versions ? Either way I see it as the "not goverment" part of the country that has the right.

7 posted on 10/14/2001 8:21:12 AM PDT by urtax$@work
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To: ZULU
Are you sure you want to try to steal my guns, leftist parasites? Are you sure you're willing to stake your lives on the proposition that you can outshoot me?
10 posted on 10/14/2001 8:48:47 AM PDT by Standing Wolf
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To: ZULU
A constant complaint is that gun control works against people who obey the law. This is unfortunate, but people should learn to cope with this. Why is that? Some people simply have to lose or give up what they want for the sake of the majority. Since picking a criminal out of a crowd is impossible, it should be assumed that anyone and everyone could be a criminal.

See, this is the major flaw in these goofballs' thinking - this country was established on the concept that all men are INNOCENT until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt!

This kind of rhetoric is unAmerican, unPatriotic, and unConstitutional!

13 posted on 10/14/2001 9:08:54 AM PDT by RayeHawk
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This appears to be the work of a high school student, so go easy on him. He's probably still impressionable, and it's better to turn him over to our side than to make him hate gun owners.
14 posted on 10/14/2001 9:14:29 AM PDT by timm22
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To: ZULU
Oh Come on!

guns were required to protect oneself and one's property from hostile Native Americans and other intruders

What's changed?

hostile Native Americans How politically correct, what about pissed off indians?

16 posted on 10/14/2001 9:23:57 AM PDT by caseyblane
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To: ZULU
You imply that this is some sort of lesson plan used by New Jersey teachers. That is so misleading you should be embarrassed to have posted this. This isn't written by a teacher or for the use of teachers. It's written by a tenth grader who was assigned to pick a controversial topic and do research on both sides and write about what he thought. Other students wrote about the death penalty, Middle East peace, assisted suicide, telecommunications reform, and overpopulation.

Click here to see the list of all the tenth graders' papers posted on the website.

We did this sort of thing when I was in school. I remember studying Reagan's and Carter's positions in sixth grade in 1980 and writing about why I thought Reagan should be elected.

So this kid disagrees with you, me, and lot of other people on Free Republic about gun control. Big deal. If he'd reached the conclusion you like, then would his assignment have bothered you? I doubt it. I guess some people like free thought only when it agrees with them. At least they've got them doing research on both sides of the issues and trying to learn how to think about real issues of controversy. I don't want schools indoctrinating anybody, but I also don't want them discouraging independent thought about controversial issues. Do you?

18 posted on 10/14/2001 10:03:54 AM PDT by choosetheright
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To: ZULU
The U.S. has the highest firearm murder rate of any democracy in the world (Aitkens 5).

Lie#1. I believe Mexico and Russia are democracies. Their murder rates are I believe double ours. Also, it doesn't matter if it is a firearm murder rate. I care about TOTAL murder rates.

But, if pressure was applied to all aspects of gun employment - production, ownership, and most importantly dealership - a majority of problems could be controlled.
How?

Since there are two sides to every debate, the antithesis of this position views gun control as unnecessary. This view is strongly held by the National Rifle Association, a very powerful organization, which has nearly 3 million members and an annual budget of 88 million dollars.

5 Million members now.

The NRA is highly effective in motivating thousands of gun owners into action against gun control legislation. Lobbying, advertisements, letter-writing campaigns, and contributions to political candidates who oppose gun control have been some of the establishment's most effective strategies in its fight against tighter firearms laws.

That is correct. It's called politics. On the other hand, all the anti-gun stuff comes from the top down through the Joyce, Tides, and Tsunami Foundations.

Most members of the NRA believe that restricting firearms to prevent gun-related deaths is ridiculous.

It is. It doesn't word. Washington DC is a perfect example.

The whole idea of restricting firearms can seem absurd when contrasted with information published by the National Rifle Association which states that in reality over 99.8 percent of firearms and 99.6 percent of handguns will never be involved in criminal activity. This means that gun control laws would restrict law-abiding citizens, while doing nothing to reduce crime (Aitkens 13-15).

The following twenty-seven words of the Second Amendment have caused quite a bit of confusion for the past two hundred years:

A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed (Landau 44).

The Second Amendment guarantees the right to bear arms. But to whom does it guarantee the right? Everybody? Whom exactly did the people who wrote the amendment have in mind? Let's not forget, this was written over two hundred years ago when life was different.

So what? The PURPOSE hasn't changed one bit. Have you read Federalist 46? The second amendment is to protect the people from tyrannical governments, foreign or domestic. That was the words, not from a nut, but from James Madison.

At that time hunting was a major means of getting food and guns were required to protect oneself and one's property from hostile Native Americans and other intruders.

Hunting has nothing to do with the 2nd amendment. And protection of property is still relavent today as much as before.

In other words, what a car is to an American today, a rifle was to an American back then - a bare necessity (Gottfried 26-31). Another problem about this Amendment is that there are many interpretations of what several of the words in the short text mean. For example, people , according to many, refers to all individual American citizens.

People means a group of persons. It's pretty simple.

Others believe that people is simply avoiding the use of the word militia again, but the two are used in the same sense. In other words, people , used here does not indicate a right of all individuals, but only of those selected few who belong to a militia (which at that time included almost all the males living in a colony).

Federalist 46 explains this again as well. Who is the militia? Look to the founders.

Afore mentioned NRA statistics seem overwhelming, and, perhaps, conclusive. However, they are rather meaningless since they do not manage to explain the damages caused by those mere 0.2 percent (for firearms) and 0.4 percent (for handguns). The following are some statistics gathered by Maggi Aitkens: The number of people murdered by firearms rose 160 percent between the years 1960 and 1980, comparing to an increase of 85 percent for people who were murdered by other means.

It's decreased since 1992.

Every day in the United States, 10 children ages 18 and under are killed by handguns, mainly by accident.

That's incorrect. It's mostly by SUICIDE, which is a choice. It's also not BY a gun, but WITH a gun.

Another 100 children are seriously injured.

A teenager intentionally takes his or her own life with the use of a handgun every three hours. In general, as the years go by, guns tend to outweigh all other methods of suicides, and this includes adults, as well. (pg. 6-7)

So what? It's a person's choice, although a sad one.

We're not calling for a total ban on firearms.

The actions of Handgun Control say otherwise.

We're calling for national laws that stop criminal access to handguns and ensure the appropriate use of firearms - the same way laws require people to use an automobile appropriately.

That's impossible. Criminal will always be able to get a gun. Again, Washington DC has among the highest murder rate in the world, and has a gun ban.

In a country where cars, dogs, and even bicycles must be registered in most areas, shouldn't we have at least similar laws for something as dangerous as firearms?" (Aitkens, 11-12)

Michigan has gun registration, and has one of the higher murder rates in the country.

According to Whitmore, no one from Handgun Control, a non-profit organization, believes gun control laws alone will stop all handgun violence. She goes on to say "We're not that naive. The fact is, gun control is only part of the answer - but it's a very important part. We believe it will make a significant dent in the number of needless handgun and other firearm deaths in this country."

Again, how?

Although both favor crime reduction, Handgun Control employs a strategy which addresses the problem of gun-related accidents, suicides, and crimes before they happen by requiring a background search. This background search is opposed by the NRA because they believe that the assumption of innocence makes this unnecessary.

The NRA is not opposed to background checks if they are INSTANT checks and the records are destroyed.

A constant complaint is that gun control works against people who obey the law. This is unfortunate, but people should learn to cope with this. Why is that? Some people simply have to lose or give up what they want for the sake of the majority. Since picking a criminal out of a crowd is impossible, it should be assumed that anyone and everyone could be a criminal.

That's the problem with the Anti-Self Defense lobby.

Laws of prohibition or control must be set up for everybody, including those individuals who would not present any problems. Criminals have easy access to guns, and the only way of stopping them from obtaining them, is by unfortunately restricting easy access of guns for everyone.

There isn't easy access to guns for law abiding citizens. Not legally.

A waiting period would prevent guns from falling into the wrong hands.

How? That doesn't even make sense. Background checks take 3 minutes. I know. I bought a gun before.

Gun control is necessary in our violent society. Gun registration, permits to purchase, license to own, and license to carry are very important safety precautions.

It doesn't work in Michigan.

The documentation is very important as it monitors transfers between dealer and buyer. Documentation must be enforced to such a degree that it is either unavoidable, or a person simply cannot get a gun.

Documentation and Registration doesn't work and leads to confiscation, if the majority of politicians are those with views like Dianne Feinstein, Rod Blagojevich, Laura Baird, John Schwarz, and Howard Metzenbaum.

Although convincing statistics have been cited, they alone are not enough. It is public opinion that shapes the government. Numerous polls and surveys indicate the majority want enforcement of current legislature regarding guns and firearms.

However those that back the Anti Self-Defense lobby generally lose elections in many areas outside of Calfornia and New York. And also, why should Americans in places like Livingston County Michigan be punished with draconian laws, because LA 2500 miles away can't control their murder rate?

Since more gun related crimes are committed in the USA than any other country in the world,

Again, Mexico and Russia say otherwise.

the United States needs to improve its gun policies.

I agree. We have too many gun laws

Keeping people on record would allow strict control of guns. "People" are all involved; manufacturers, dealer, buyers, and most importantly, users.

And the crime would be rising afterwars as it is once again in California.

There is another thing not mentioned. Guns are used as many as 2.5 million times a year in self defense.(SOurce Gary Kleck). Also, states that allow conceal carry have lower crime rates than states that do not allowed concealed carry. You can also compare Macomb County with Wayne County in Michigan. Macomb County had right to carry. Wayne County did not. Macomb County had 10 murders and has a million people. Wayne County had 430 and 2 million people.

19 posted on 10/14/2001 10:07:46 AM PDT by Dan from Michigan
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To: ZULU
Every time a gun is fired, negative, more often than positive, effects follow.

Guns are fired Billions of times a year. Only a miniscule fraction of those times do negative effects follow.

26 posted on 10/14/2001 11:16:33 AM PDT by ctdonath2
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To: ZULU
In response to the Bergen County article.

I wasn't able to post it on their website, so if anyone else can, feel free.

----

I have recently reviewed the posting on gun control on your web site and am dismayed by the large number of incorrect assumptions, primarily based on incorrect data.

1) To quote your article directly, "Every time a gun is fired, negative, more often than positive, effects follow."

While there are approx. 30,000 deaths a year from firearms (including homicide, suicide, and accidents), intervention by armed citizens stops millions of crimes each year, often without the need for actually needing to fire a weapon. This fact consistently goes unreported by traditional media outlets, which consistenly show a bias in favor of gun control legislation versus responsible ownership of firearms.

2) Given that there are over 20,000 gun control laws on the books in this country, why is there no example of one of these laws which has successfully led to a reduction in violent crime? Gun control laws are praised based on their level of severity, such as those in Massachusetts, rather on their effectiveness. In fact, violent crime rates in Massachusetts have gone up since the new laws have been passed. In addition, according to recent BATF statistics, Boston ranks as one of the most likely cities for a juvenile to be in posession of a weapon when arrested.

Research by John Lott at the University of Chicago has shown the opposite to be true. In the 34 states where "right to carry" laws have been passed, violent crime has shown a general reduction, including multiple-victim shootings.

3) The United States no longer ranks among nations with the highest murder rates. It has been surpassed by nations which have introduced universal bans on private firearms ownership, including, but not limited to Australia and England. While firearm fatalities in the United States went up from 1960 to 1980, they have gone down consistently since then to where they are now at the lowest point in the last thirty years. These rates in the United States have gone down while, at the same time, the number of firearms owned by American citizens has gone up.

4) According to the 1998 National Vital Statistics from the Centers for Disease Control, firearms are the preferred method of suicide among males. Of the 17,242 suicides using firearms, only 1,241 were individuals of age 19 or below. This is less than half the number cited. There are till more non-firearm suicides (13,151) in this country that there are homicides by firearms (12,102), reflecting that this is more of a mental health issue than a gun-control issue.

5) Accidental deaths by firearms have consistently been below 1000 per year, less than 1% of all accidental deaths in the United States. The CDC numbers for 1998 list only 832. Of these, only 262 were individuals under the age of 19. A large number of these deaths are not due to children having access to guns, but accidental discharges of firearms in the hands of white males in their 20s, usually with alcohol involved.

6) The NRA has over 4 million members.

7) The inclusion of the Second Amendment in the Constitution of the United States has nothing to do with hunting. It's purpose in guaranteeing the right to "the people" is political, to prevent all power by force from being concentrated in the hands of the governement. According to the definition by Thomas Jefferson, when the people fear the government, it's tyranny and when the government fears the people, it's democracy.

27 posted on 10/14/2001 12:25:16 PM PDT by PapaLima
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To: ZULU
I just checked out that message board, and it has definitely been FREEPED!

I sent the following reply to both the message board.

Regarding the article on gun control by Michael Sienko the author's whole argument falls apart because of this statement:

"Since picking a criminal out of a crowd is impossible, it should be assumed that anyone and everyone could be a criminal."

This is presuming that everybody is guilty until proven innocent. This is a violation of the Fifth and Sixth amendments.

Another thing that stuck out in my mind was that the author called everybody up to the age of 18 "children".

The fact is that for children age 1-14, 142 died in 1997 from firearms. This is a far cry from 3,650 each year, as Michael Sienko would have you believe. (Source: Figures are for 1997. National Safety Council, Accident Facts: 2000 Edition, at 10, 11, 18.)

Dr. Kleck notes that, "Accidental shooters were significantly more likely to have been arrested, arrested for a violent act, arrested in connection with alcohol, involved in highway crashes, given traffic citations, and to have had their driver's license suspended or revoked." (Dr. Kleck is a professor in the school of criminology and criminal justice at Florida State University.)

If we are to go by things that cause child deaths as reason to control items, then swimming pools (965 deaths), fires (676 deaths), small objects (suffocation - 474 deaths), and food (185 deaths) should be controlled. (Source: See above National Safety Council source)

Mre Sienko also states, "No matter how they are looked upon, guns will be, as they always have been, dangerous. Every time a gun is fired, negative, more often than positive, effects follow."

I've fired some form of a firearm more than 1,000 times. In most cases, the result was a hole in a piece of paper. Other cases resulted in holes in other assorted inanimate targets. One shot resulted in the death of a varmint on our property. No shots resulted in human fatalities. When you multiply this times all the other gun owners who shoot for recreation and sport, the statement that "every time a gun is fired, negative effects follow" falls apart.

Compound this with the fact that law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year -- or about 6,850 times a day. Of these, less than 8% of the time does the citizen shoot or kill his attacker. This means that usually, a law abiding citizen merely needs to brandish his weapon to stop a crime from occurring.

I also wish to take issue with the argument that guns cause suicides. About 57% of all suicides are done with a gun. So, if we take guns away, will it stop this 57% from killing themselves? I'd say that more likely, most of this 57% would find some other way to kill themself.

And finally, I want to say something about waiting periods. I'd say that most of the time, waiting periods keep people from purchasing a gun when they need one. Possible examples include women who have recieved threats from past partners, and other individuals who have been threatened by ill intended persons. And of course, there's the masses of people in Massachusetts who, because of 911,went out to buy a gun and found out that they have to wait 60 days to purchase a gun.

If I want to assassinate somebody, believe me, I wouldn't be stopped because of a waiting period. If one were to make a serious assassination attempt, it would be planned out well in advance, which would allow the person ample opportunity to purchase a gun long before the planned attempt.

No amount of legislation would stop criminals from getting guns. Case in point: any drug of your choice. All are illegal, yet millions of people are able to acquire a regular supply of whatever it is they're addicted to. Making something illegal simply makes it so that only criminals have that item which is illegal.

In closing, both Britain and Australia have banned private gun ownership. Since those bans went into place, gun related crimes have gone UP instead of down.


I also included a link to the GunOwners.org firearms fact sheet.

http://www.gunowners.org/fs0101.htm
29 posted on 10/16/2001 3:13:42 AM PDT by VRWC_Member428
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