Catastrophic Failure of Semiautomatic Handguns [Glock]

New Jersey State Police ^ | February 23, 2007 | New Jersey State Police-

[archy]

Catastrophic Failure of Semiautomatic Handguns

The following bulletin was received from the New Jersey State Police - Officer Safety Division

Date: February 23, 2007

Continuous reloading an chambering of the same round may cause catastrophic failure in semiautomatic handguns.

The Security Force at the Los Alamos National Laboratory in Los Alamos, New Mexico, recently reported on the catastrophic failure of a semiautomatic handgun when it was fired. The internal explosion caused the frame to break while the slide and barrel separated from the weapon and traveled down range. No one was injured in the incident. An investigation revealed that security personnel were repeatedly charging the same round of ammunition into the chamber.

Technical personnel at Glock Inc. advise that repeated chambering of the same round may cause the bullet to move deeper in the casing, further compacting the prpellent. When a normal cartride is fired, the firing pin his the primer, igniting the propellant. When the propellant burns, the gas pressure drives the bullet out of the case and down the barrel. However, if the propellant has been compact, the pressure may increase beyond the gun's specifications, causing the weapon to break apart. Sigarms Inc's peronnel confirm that reloading the same round five or six times will cause the problems, noting that reloading the same round even once will void their warranty. Both manufacturers stress that the problem is not with the gun, but with chambering the same round repeatedly.

The NJ Regional Operations Intelligence Center urges all law enforement officers not to chamber the same round when loading their weapons.

***For example, when you clean your weapon, most of us drop the magazine and then pull the slide back thereby ejecting the round in the barrel. After cleaning the weapon many of us will return the "same" round to the barrel that we initially extracted. Each time the slide slams forward on that same round it seats it deeper into the cartridge. Apparently, by seating the round deeper into the cartridge, it creates greater pressure when the round is intentionally detonated by a firing pin strike and is causing weaopn's to explode.

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[absolootezer0]

why practice with something different from what you'll be using to protect your life? POI is always different, sometimes drastically. there's no way i would bet my life on the difference.
and i really just don't get carrying a chambered round on a glock. the lack of a positive safety would make me very nervous.

[skimask]

I've got the perfect way to fix this problem. Buy a SIG Sauer P-226. Problem solved.

[archy]

Well, why isn't ammunition manufactured so that the case has a small lip that physically will not allow the round to be inserted any further into the casing? This is a no-brainer.

If you drop a round of ammo, pick it up, dust it off and inspect it to insure no nicks or gouges, it could STILL blow up because the round was pressed deeper into the casing?

It hasn't been a problem with the M1911 .45 pistol and its M1911 Ball ammo, in use with the service handgun from 1911 to 1984 [and since, here and there] and in the Thompson, Reising, M3 and M3A1 and M10 submachineguns in military service, all in the same caliber.

You'd think if anything would squash the bullet into the depths of the cartridge case, it'd be the inertia of a one-pound bolt slamming the cartridge out of the magazine and into the chamber at a cyclic rate of 450 times a minute, [M3/M3A1 greaseguns] 550-600 RPM [later Thompsons and Reisings] and 700-1200 times per minute [early Navy and Marine M1921 Thompsins and Ingram .45 M10s]

But the original .45 Ammo specs were developed for both semi and full-auto use. Good thing, as it turned out, for several reasons.

[ANGGAPO]

Sounds more like some foreign object it the barrel to me.

[Tijeras_Slim]

and i really just don't get carrying a chambered round on a glock. the lack of a positive safety would make me very nervous.

I would with the NY trigger, which is heavier and much like the DA pull of a revolver (which is my preferred item). Also, a most gunfight distances (7 yards or usually less) POI is less of an issue, although you should be familiar with where your gun hits with your carry ammo.

[saganite]

I don't like Glocks but this is clearly a case of operator error. I'll rechamber a .22 round once and if it doesn't fire it gets discarded. It's not smart to rechamber a centerfire round. After reading this I think I'll stop rechambering those .22's!

[tacticalogic]

Is it the action of the round being slammed home in the chamber and the delay in the bullet's inertia allowing it to be pushed a bit deeper in the case while the case moves into the chamber every time it happens?

OR

I would think the bullet would be pulled out of the case as the case mouth contacts the step in the chamber. Like the way a kinetic bullet puller works.

And are we talking about a round chambered from the clip by cycling the bolt, or inserting it directly into the chamber and then dropping the bold on it to keep a full mag? It seems the physics would be different for a round already in the chamber than one being stripped out of the clip.

[AngryJawa]

Methinks it has more to do with the steep feed ramp affecting seating.

IMHO, it's exactly that - "setback"

I've run into the same problem chambering the same "carry" .45 ACP JHP cartridge in my 1911 over and over after cleanings, range trips, etc. Eventually, I noticed the round was much shorter than the others and pulled it from service.

Sooner or later, the spring-assisted slamming of the bullet nose into the feed ramp drives the bullet back into the case.

Lesson 1: Rotate your carry ammo in the magazine often

Lesson 2: Inspect and measure your carry ammo occasionally

[Tree of Liberty]

I've read of this being an issue for the .40S&W round for some time.

[archy]

I've got the perfect way to fix this problem. Buy a SIG Sauer P-226. Problem solved

The Secret Service reported breakage of the aluminum frames of their SIG226s as early as the 1990s, as did the West German Bundeswehr with the aluminum frames of their postwar 9mm P1 versions of the wartime steel-framed Walther P.38. So did our local PD, who used SIG226s before they switched to Glocks.

The British SAS and Marine Commandos have been fond of the SIG 226 in 9mm, since they don't rust as badly as did their previous L9A1 Browning GPs, which sometimes exhibited slide cracks when hot 9mm loads are used, officially and intentionally or otherwise.

There really is no one easy, simple answer. But if that pistol and the load you've been using in it works well for you, by all means stick with it.

[Marine Inspector]

i really just don't get carrying a chambered round on a glock. the lack of a positive safety would make me very nervous.

Ultimately the user is the safety. I carry a chambered round in my Glock and I never get nervous about it. The weapon will not fire unless I pull the trigger. What's to be nervouse about?

[fireforeffect]

I agree with you.

While I have never used a Glock Model 22 (40S&W), I have used 1911's for over 20 years and have never experienced this problem. Even with some of the crappy cheap stuff I have purchased/been issued and used over the years.

Rimless rounds should head space on the shoulder or lip of the case. The bullet should not have any effect. Ideally, the bullet should just touch the rifling (which should be tapered at the chamber end of the barrel). This a manufacturing issue, all ammunition should be made to standard dimensions.

My guess is that there is a design flaw/material weakness in the glocks. Why Sig voids their warranty is troubling.

[Marine Inspector]

I've put over 2,000 rounds through my Glock and never had a misfire or any other problem. I can't say that about my Beretta or H&K.

[redgolum]

Seating the bullet deeper causes an increase in pressure. It doesn't take much to make a safe load into a Kaboom. Ask any old reloader about it, it is one of the first things you need to learn to roll your own.

to deep, and

[absolootezer0]

i guess too many stories about both cops and other people shooting themselves when holstering.

[LeGrande]

Are there any charts on compression effects? My experience has been that too little or two much compression is detrimental to the bullets performance.

Do Glocks have a lower margin of error on how much pressure they will withstand compared to other handguns?

If all it takes is chambering a round a dozen times, I would think that this would be a much more widespread problem. One incident probably doesn't teach us much. We need a couple of hundred examples.

[archy]

I've read of this being an issue for the .40S&W round for some time.

Yes. Though not all these are .40 S&W related, some are:

Indiana

Portland, OR

Portland/ -more-

Los Angeles

Charleston, SC

New York

More *here.* Much more....

[ExSoldier]

I just scanned this pretty fast. Was there any mention of the type of ammo used? Wouldn't surprise me to find they were using RNL (Round Nose Lead) instead of the recommended FMJ ball ammo. Everytime I've seen a product of Gaston Glock go Ka-Boom it's been due to leading of the barrel because some bozo wanted to shave some money not realizing the octoganal barrel also shaves lead and deposits it in the barrel as a dangerous buildup leading to a blockage...

[skyman]

That sounds like the kind of thinking when "plastic" guns like Glocks first came out.

The last 4 day training at one of the best training facilities in the US I went to the majority of class used Glocks. Zero malfunctions from the group using Glocks.
The students who did have problems were using 1911 and various other handguns.

In fact the training facility used Glocks as their rental guns because they almost never had problems with them.

Any individual guns can have problems but if you stay away from the cheap guns most modern autos are reliable.

[decimon]

Wheelguns?