Posted on 01/04/2005 2:34:33 PM PST by churchillbuff
Leaving unexplained the biblical reference to Peter's mother-in-law.
What source are you relying on? Paul, in 1 Tim. 4:3, considered it part of the great apostasy to forbid marriage. That doesn't include voluntary singlness, which is commended. I can't find in scripture, or any other source close enough to the time that teaches that Peter stoped having relations with his wife.
Wow! OK, I'll think about it again. You don't know my wife though. ;-)
No, it was preventing the cutting off of other parts that helped my choice in life. :oP
My source is "Saint Peter and the First Years of Christianity", by the Abbe Constant Fouard, translated by George F. X. Griffith (second edition 1892, Longmans, Green and Co.). On page 248, in a chapter describing St. Peter and the Jews of Rome, Abbe Fouard writes: "But though the wife of Simon the fisherman did not accompany him during the Master's lifetime, yet after the Resurrection, united to him now by purely spiritual ties, she could have no reason for leaving his side." Footnotes acompanying the paragraph reference Cor. ix. 5, the writings of Clement of Alexandria (Stromata, vii.11), and Eusebius, Historia Ecclesiastica, iii. 30. I have not reverted to the original sources to confirm this statement of Abbe Fouard.
Hi Tantumergo,
How are you my brother. LOL! I've been very close to the ordained life for many many years. And fortunately saw so many things before I was ordained. So I was very familiar with the everyday affairs and duties of deacons, priests and bishops. Casual demeanor often plagues one who has a lot of time on his hands, and even the most dedicated and orthodox are affected by it. I know both part and full time clergy, celibate and married. Orthodox and dedicated one and all. And as far as devotedness and dedication to the vocation and duties, I see so little difference that it makes no difference, IMHO. The celibate person, whether a deacon, priest, bishop, brother, sister, friar, or lay person has one advantage that I can see. They can live in community! But that is a rare case these days! Almost unheard of in the diocesan priesthood. Outside of that, I know way too many married clergy who work as hard, in many instances harder, for the sake of the name, than their celibate counterparts. I support celibacy for those who are called to it. It is a gift. But it is a discipline as well. There will be much resistance to changing this disipline in the Latin Rite from being mandatory back to being optional.
Does that mean you are a Baptist minister?
If that's true, then "Pope Peter the First" was in a continuing state of sin. The Bible says:
1st Cor.7:3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. 5Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of selfcontrol.
Well, that's the Apostle Paul's take on the matter. Temporary marital abstinence is permitted (it's the sexual equivalent of fasting), but permanent abstinence is not. Regular sex (assuming no medical or other impediment prevents it) is a requirement of Christian marriage.
Hallelujah.
If your interpretation is correct, there are many saints recognized by the Church who died in a state of sin. Not a possibility. There are countless examples of saints who were husbands and wives mutually agreed to celibacy. Let's see, your view or the Church's view?...hmmmm...let's see...
O.K., I'll go with the Church.
And I'll go with the Word of God.
Nobody is disputing the value of celibacy for those who are called to it and embrace it. The issue is whether the Church should continue to impose mandatory celibacy on every Catholic man who presents himself for the priesthood.
My own view is that, were it put to a vote among the world's bishops, the discipline would be changed.
This saying is trustworthy: whoever aspires to the office of bishop desires a noble task. Therefore, a bishop must be irreproachable, married only once, temperate, self-controlled, decent, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not aggressive, but gentle, not contentious, not a lover of money. He must manage his own household well, keeping his children under control with perfect dignity; for if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how can he take care of the church of God? He should not be a recent convert, so that he may not become conceited and thus incur the devil's punishment. He must also have a good reputation among outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, the devil's trap. Catholic Bible Online -- 1st Tim. 3
"The idea that men, young men of twenty say,..take a vow of celibacy. That they will never get married. And that they can keep that without getting twisted and psychologically moronic and finally ending up in pedophilia or sadism or in some twisted psychology. That is the normal attitude towards priests today. So the idea of Roman Catholic celibacy is something that is utterly alien to the mind.
Why? Because the idea of priesthood is. And this is where the great lack in teaching in seminaries and in the Catholic populace lies." Fr. Martin
"He should not be a recent convert, so that he may not become conceited and thus incur the devil's punishment."
I'm glad you agree that this protestant shouldn't be a priest. But, then, extrapolating whole new religions from bits and pieces of scripture is a protestant thing, isn't it?
I never said or implied that. I think you were trying to be humorous, but humor doesn't work unless it contains some truth.
But, then, extrapolating whole new religions from bits and pieces of scripture is a protestant thing, isn't it?
Ignoring chunks of scripture in favor of Church Tradition is a Catholic thing. Indeed it is THE reason for the existence of non-Anglican Protestantism. "You have nullified the word of God for the sake of your tradition." --(Matt. 15:6)
Maybe. But fortunately the Vicar of Christ is rather less eager to jettison centuries of tradition to appease the devotees of the Sexual Revolution.
A married priest? Interesting.
Are the other 22 Rites of the Catholic Church that ordain married men devotees of the Sexual Revolution?
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