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Married Episcopal priest will become priest in Roman Catholic Diocese of Scanton
virtueonline ^ | Jan 4 04 | David Virtue

Posted on 01/04/2005 2:34:33 PM PST by churchillbuff

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To: vox_freedom
"The truth is that the Church's obligation of celibacy goes back to the apostles in an “unbroken” line."

Leaving unexplained the biblical reference to Peter's mother-in-law.

181 posted on 01/06/2005 2:24:14 AM PST by muir_redwoods
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To: Luddite Patent Counsel

What source are you relying on? Paul, in 1 Tim. 4:3, considered it part of the great apostasy to forbid marriage. That doesn't include voluntary singlness, which is commended. I can't find in scripture, or any other source close enough to the time that teaches that Peter stoped having relations with his wife.


182 posted on 01/06/2005 4:18:33 AM PST by bethelgrad (for God, country, the Marine Corps, and now the Navy Chaplain Corps OOH RAH!)
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To: Tantumergo
The divorce rate among deacons worldwide is only about 0.5%

Wow! OK, I'll think about it again. You don't know my wife though. ;-)

183 posted on 01/06/2005 5:37:08 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: iconoclast

No, it was preventing the cutting off of other parts that helped my choice in life. :oP


184 posted on 01/06/2005 8:10:34 AM PST by Sensei Ern
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To: bethelgrad; sinkspur

My source is "Saint Peter and the First Years of Christianity", by the Abbe Constant Fouard, translated by George F. X. Griffith (second edition 1892, Longmans, Green and Co.). On page 248, in a chapter describing St. Peter and the Jews of Rome, Abbe Fouard writes: "But though the wife of Simon the fisherman did not accompany him during the Master's lifetime, yet after the Resurrection, united to him now by purely spiritual ties, she could have no reason for leaving his side." Footnotes acompanying the paragraph reference Cor. ix. 5, the writings of Clement of Alexandria (Stromata, vii.11), and Eusebius, Historia Ecclesiastica, iii. 30. I have not reverted to the original sources to confirm this statement of Abbe Fouard.


185 posted on 01/06/2005 8:24:26 AM PST by Luddite Patent Counsel
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To: Tantumergo; eastsider; sinkspur

Hi Tantumergo,

How are you my brother. LOL! I've been very close to the ordained life for many many years. And fortunately saw so many things before I was ordained. So I was very familiar with the everyday affairs and duties of deacons, priests and bishops. Casual demeanor often plagues one who has a lot of time on his hands, and even the most dedicated and orthodox are affected by it. I know both part and full time clergy, celibate and married. Orthodox and dedicated one and all. And as far as devotedness and dedication to the vocation and duties, I see so little difference that it makes no difference, IMHO. The celibate person, whether a deacon, priest, bishop, brother, sister, friar, or lay person has one advantage that I can see. They can live in community! But that is a rare case these days! Almost unheard of in the diocesan priesthood. Outside of that, I know way too many married clergy who work as hard, in many instances harder, for the sake of the name, than their celibate counterparts. I support celibacy for those who are called to it. It is a gift. But it is a discipline as well. There will be much resistance to changing this disipline in the Latin Rite from being mandatory back to being optional.


186 posted on 01/06/2005 8:24:45 AM PST by ThomasMore (Pax et bonum!)
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To: Sensei Ern

Does that mean you are a Baptist minister?


187 posted on 01/06/2005 8:38:16 AM PST by iconoclast (Conservative, not partisan.)
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To: Luddite Patent Counsel; bethelgrad; sinkspur
Abbe Fouard writes: "...the wife of Simon the fisherman did not accompany him during the Master's lifetime, yet after the Resurrection, united to him now by purely spiritual ties, she could have no reason for leaving his side."

If that's true, then "Pope Peter the First" was in a continuing state of sin. The Bible says:

1st Cor.7:3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. 5Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of selfcontrol.

Well, that's the Apostle Paul's take on the matter. Temporary marital abstinence is permitted (it's the sexual equivalent of fasting), but permanent abstinence is not. Regular sex (assuming no medical or other impediment prevents it) is a requirement of Christian marriage.

Hallelujah.

188 posted on 01/06/2005 9:01:43 AM PST by Rytwyng (we're here, we're Huguenots, get used to us)
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To: Rytwyng

If your interpretation is correct, there are many saints recognized by the Church who died in a state of sin. Not a possibility. There are countless examples of saints who were husbands and wives mutually agreed to celibacy. Let's see, your view or the Church's view?...hmmmm...let's see...

O.K., I'll go with the Church.


189 posted on 01/06/2005 9:14:41 AM PST by Luddite Patent Counsel
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To: Luddite Patent Counsel
Let's see, your view or the Church's view?...hmmmm...let's see... O.K., I'll go with the Church.

And I'll go with the Word of God.

190 posted on 01/06/2005 9:19:43 AM PST by Rytwyng (we're here, we're Huguenots, get used to us)
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To: Gerard.P
I had to laugh when you quoted Malachi Martin discussing celibacy. The man was relieved of his vows as a Jesuit so he could become a professional gadfly and write doom-and-gloom fictions about the Church. He passed himself off as a Vatican insider who related stories about satanic rituals in the Vatican and peddled all kinds of conspiracies (among them that JPI was murdered).

Nobody is disputing the value of celibacy for those who are called to it and embrace it. The issue is whether the Church should continue to impose mandatory celibacy on every Catholic man who presents himself for the priesthood.

My own view is that, were it put to a vote among the world's bishops, the discipline would be changed.

191 posted on 01/06/2005 9:22:22 AM PST by sinkspur ("How dare you presume to tell God what He cannot do" God Himself)
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To: Luddite Patent Counsel
Oh! I almost forgot:

This saying is trustworthy: whoever aspires to the office of bishop desires a noble task. Therefore, a bishop must be irreproachable, married only once, temperate, self-controlled, decent, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not aggressive, but gentle, not contentious, not a lover of money. He must manage his own household well, keeping his children under control with perfect dignity; for if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how can he take care of the church of God? He should not be a recent convert, so that he may not become conceited and thus incur the devil's punishment. He must also have a good reputation among outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, the devil's trap. Catholic Bible Online -- 1st Tim. 3

192 posted on 01/06/2005 9:29:37 AM PST by Rytwyng (we're here, we're Huguenots, get used to us)
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To: vox_freedom
This is a myth as is the myth...

Fourth Century
306-Council of Elvira, Spain, decree #43: a priest who sleeps with his wife the night before Mass will lose his job.
325-Council of Nicea: decreed that after ordination a priest could not marry. Proclaimed the Nicene Creed.
385-Pope Siricius left his wife in order to become pope. Decreed that priests may no longer sleep with their wives.

Sixth Century
567-2nd Council of Tours: any cleric found in bed with his wife would be excommunicated for a year and reduced to the lay state.
580-Pope Pelagius II: his policy was not to bother married priests as long as they did not hand over church property to wives or children.
193 posted on 01/06/2005 9:35:37 AM PST by BikerNYC
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To: sinkspur; Gerard.P; pascendi; thor76
I am not surprised that all you saw in this post was an opportunity to slander a devout priest who is now deceased and cannot defend himself, and to advance your own modernist agenda.

"The idea that men, young men of twenty say,..take a vow of celibacy. That they will never get married. And that they can keep that without getting twisted and psychologically moronic and finally ending up in pedophilia or sadism or in some twisted psychology. That is the normal attitude towards priests today. So the idea of Roman Catholic celibacy is something that is utterly alien to the mind.

Why? Because the idea of priesthood is. And this is where the great lack in teaching in seminaries and in the Catholic populace lies." Fr. Martin

194 posted on 01/06/2005 9:46:13 AM PST by murphE ("I ain't no physicist, but I know what matters." - Popeye)
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To: Rytwyng

"He should not be a recent convert, so that he may not become conceited and thus incur the devil's punishment."

I'm glad you agree that this protestant shouldn't be a priest. But, then, extrapolating whole new religions from bits and pieces of scripture is a protestant thing, isn't it?


195 posted on 01/06/2005 9:50:40 AM PST by Luddite Patent Counsel
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To: murphE
I am not surprised that all you saw in this post was an opportunity to slander a devout priest who is now deceased and cannot defend himself, and to advance your own modernist agenda.

Karl Keating's not wild about Martin either.

196 posted on 01/06/2005 10:04:18 AM PST by sinkspur ("How dare you presume to tell God what He cannot do" God Himself)
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To: Luddite Patent Counsel
I'm glad you agree that this protestant shouldn't be a priest.

I never said or implied that. I think you were trying to be humorous, but humor doesn't work unless it contains some truth.

But, then, extrapolating whole new religions from bits and pieces of scripture is a protestant thing, isn't it?

Ignoring chunks of scripture in favor of Church Tradition is a Catholic thing. Indeed it is THE reason for the existence of non-Anglican Protestantism. "You have nullified the word of God for the sake of your tradition." --(Matt. 15:6)

197 posted on 01/06/2005 10:16:01 AM PST by Rytwyng (we're here, we're Huguenots, get used to us)
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To: sinkspur
>>>>>>>My own view is that, were it put to a vote among the world's bishops, the discipline would be changed.<<<<<<

Maybe. But fortunately the Vicar of Christ is rather less eager to jettison centuries of tradition to appease the devotees of the Sexual Revolution.

198 posted on 01/06/2005 10:19:18 AM PST by Thorin ("I won't be reconstructed, and I do not give a damn.")
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To: churchillbuff

A married priest? Interesting.


199 posted on 01/06/2005 10:20:42 AM PST by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: Thorin
But fortunately the Vicar of Christ is rather less eager to jettison centuries of tradition to appease the devotees of the Sexual Revolution.

Are the other 22 Rites of the Catholic Church that ordain married men devotees of the Sexual Revolution?

200 posted on 01/06/2005 10:21:34 AM PST by sinkspur ("How dare you presume to tell God what He cannot do" God Himself)
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