Skip to comments.
The FReeper Foxhole Remembers The Col. Simons and the Son Tay Raid (11/20-21/1970) - Sep. 3rd, 2003
http://www.psywarrior.com/sontay.html ^
Posted on 09/03/2003 5:34:51 AM PDT by tmprincesa
Lord,
Keep our Troops forever in Your care
Give them victory over the enemy...
Grant them a safe and swift return...
Bless those who mourn the lost. .
FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer for all those serving their country at this time.
God Bless America ...................................................................................... ...........................................
|
|
|
|
|
|
U.S. Military History, Current Events and Veterans Issues
Where Duty, Honor and Country are acknowledged, affirmed and commemorated.
|
Our Mission: The FReeper Foxhole is dedicated to Veterans of our Nation's military forces and to others who are affected in their relationships with Veterans.
Welcome to "Warrior Wednesday"
Where the Freeper Foxhole introduces a different veteran each Wednesday. The "ordinary" Soldier, Sailor, Airman or Marine who participated in the events in our Country's history. We hope to present events as seen through their eyes. To give you a glimpse into the life of those who sacrificed for all of us - Our Veterans.
To read previous Foxhole threads or to add the Foxhole to your sidebar, click on the books below.
|
|
|
|
|
The Son Tay Raid
By the spring of 1970, there were more than 450 known American POWs in North Vietnam and another 970 American servicemen who were missing in action. Some of the POWs had been imprisoned over 2,000 days, longer than any serviceman had ever spent in captivity in any war in America's history. Furthermore, the reports of horrid conditions, brutality, torture and even death were being told in intelligence reports.
A low-level aerial photograph of Son Tay POW camp taken by a "Buffalo Hunter" reconnaisance drone in 1968, just after the first Americans were moved to the compound.
In May of 1970, reconnaissance photographs revealed the existence of two prison camps west of Hanoi. At Son Tay, 23 miles from Hanoi, one photograph identified a large "K" - a code for "come get us" - drawn in the dirt. At the other camp Ap Lo, about 30 miles west of North Vietnam's capital, another photo showed the letters SAR (Search and Rescue), apparently spelled out by the prisoner's laundry, and an arrow with the number 8, indicating the distance the men had to travel to the fields they worked in.
Reconnaissance photos taken by SR-71 "Blackbirds" revealed that Son Tay "was active". The camp itself was in the open and surrounded by rice paddies. In close proximity was the 12th North Vietnamese Army (NVA) Regiment totaling approximately 12,000 troops. Also nearby was an artillery school, a supply depot, and an air defense installation.
Five hundred yards south was another compound called the "secondary school", which was an administration center housing 45 guards.To make matters more difficult, Phuc Yen Air Base was only 20 miles northeast of Son Tay.
Lockheed's SR-71 reconnaisance aircraft took most of the Son Tay target photos from above 80,000 feet while streaking over North Vietnam at more than three times the speed of sound.
It was determined that Son Tay was being enlarged because of the increased activity at the camp. It was evident that the raid would have to be executed swiftly. If not, the Communists could have planes in the air and a reactionary force at the camp within minutes.
Son Tay itself was small and was situated amid 40-foot trees to obstruct the view. Only one power and telephone line entered it. The POWs were kept in four large buildings in the main compound. Three observation towers and a 7-foot wall encompassed the camp. Because of its diminutive size, only one chopper could land within the walls. The remainder would have to touch down outside the compound.Another problem the planning group had to consider was the weather. The heavy monsoon downpours prohibited the raid until late fall. Finally, November was selected because the moon would be high enough over the horizon for good visibility, but low enough to obscure the enemy's vision.
The National Security Agency (NSA) tracked the NVA air defense systems and artillery units nearby. Also, in addition to the "Blackbirds", unmanned Buffalo Hunter "Drones" flew over the camp as well, although they had to cease flying because many feared that the NVA would spot them. In July, an SR-71 photo recon mission depicted "less active than usual" activity in the camp. On Oct. 3, Son Tay showed very little signs of life. However, flights over Dong Hoi, 15 miles to the east of Son Tay, were picking up increased activity. The planners were scratching their heads. Had the POWs been moved? Had the NVA picked up signs that a raid was imminent?
Brigadier General Donald D. Blackburn, who had trained Filipino guerrillas in World War II, suggested a small group of Special Forces volunteers rescue the prisoners of war. He chose Colonel Arthur D. "Bull" Simons to lead the group.
Colonel Simons went to Fort Bragg, home of the Army Special Forces and asked for volunteers. He wanted 100 men possessing certain identified skills and preferably having had recent combat experience in Southeast Asia. Approximately 500 men responded. Each was interviewed by Simons, and Sergeant Major Pylant. From that group 100 dedicated volunteers were selected. All the required skills were covered. All were in top physical condition. Although a force of 100 men was selected, Simon's believed that the number might be excessive. However as some degree of redundancy and a reservoir of spares were deemed necessary, it was decided that they would train the 100.
The ground component commander selected was Lieutenant Colonel "Bud" Sydnor from Fort Benning, Georgia. Sydnor had an impeccable reputation as a combat leader. Additionally selected to be a member of the task force from Fort Benning was another superb combat leader, Captain Dick Meadow. Meadows would later lead the team that made the risky landing inside the prison compound.
Buffalo Hunter Name given to U.S. reconnaissance drones flown over North Vietnam during the 1960s and early 1970s to collect tactical intelligence and strategic intelligence. These unmanned aircraft were launched from airborne DC-130 Hercules cargo aircraft that remained over friendly territory; after their photo flight,the drones flew back to a location where they could be landed and have their film recovered; drones were reusable.
Since the compound was more than 20 miles west of Hanoi, planners of the operation believed Son Tay was isolated enough to enable a small group to land, release prisoners and withdraw. In addition to a table model of the Son Tay prisoner of war camp, code named "Barbara", A full-scale replica of the compound was constructed at Eglin Air Force Base, Florida, where a select group of Special Forces soldiers trained at night. The mock compound was dismantled during the day to elude detection by Soviet satellites. Despite security measures, time was running out. Evidence, although inconclusive, showed that perhaps Son Tay was being emptied.
On November 18, 1970, the Son Tay raiders moved to Takhli, Thailand, a CIA operated secure compound. It was here that final preparations were made. The CIA compound at Takhli became a beehive of activity. Weapons and other equipment checks were carefully conducted. Ammunition was issued. Simons, Sydnor and Meadows made the final selection of the force numbers. Of the original 100 SF members of the force, 56 were selected for the mission. This was unwelcome news for the 44 trained and ready, but not selected. It was known from the beginning that the size of the force would be limited to only the number considered essential for the task.
Brigadier General Donald D. Blackburn
Only Simons and three others knew what the mission was to be. Five hours before takeoff November 20, Simons told his 56 men: "We are going to rescue 70 American prisoners of war, maybe more, from a camp called Son Tay. This is something American prisoners have a right to expect from their fellow soldiers. The target is 23 miles west of Hanoi."
A few men let out low whistles. Then, spontaneously, they stood up and began applauding. Simons had one other thing to say:
"You are to let nothing, nothing interfere with the operation. Our mission is to rescue prisoners, not take prisoners. And if we walk into a trap, if it turns out that they know we're coming, don't dream about walking out of North Vietnam-unless you've got wings on your feet. We'll be 100 miles from Laos; it's the wrong part of the world for a big retrograde movement. If there's been a leak, we'll know it as soon as the second or third chopper sets down; that's when they'll cream us. if it happens, I want to keep this force together. we will back up to the Song Con River and, by Christ, let them come across that God damn open ground. we'll make them pay for every foot across the sonofabitch."
"Barbara" code name of a model of the Son Tay compound built by the Central Intelligence Agency and used in the training of the Son Tay assault force. "Barbara" is now on display at the John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Museum at Fort Bragg, NC.
Later in their barracks at Udorn Royal Thai Air Force Base Simons' men stowed their personal effects - family photos, letters, money, anything that should be returned to their next of kin. The raiders were then transported in closed vans to the base's biggest hangar. Inside the hanger, a four engine C-130 waited to take them on board. The raiders made a final weapon and equipment check that lasted one hour and 45 minutes.
The plan was not unduly complicated. Using in-flight refueling, the six helicopters would fly from Thailand, across Laos and into North Vietnam. While various diversions were taking place locally and across North Vietnam, the task force would close on the camp under cover of darkness. The single HH-3H "Banana 1" with a small assault force, would be crashed-landed inside the prison compound, while two HH-53s "Apple 1 and Apple 2" would disgorge the bulk of the assault force outside. The wall would be breached and the prison buildings stormed. Any North Vietnamese troops found inside would be killed and the POWs would be taken outside and flown home in the HH-53s.
On Nov. 21, 1970, at approximately 11:18 p.m., the Son Tay raiders, accompanied by C-130Es called Combat Talons, departed Udorn, Thailand, for the final phase of their mission. At the same time, diversionary attacks were being launched all over the country. The U.S. Navy began a huge carrier strike against North Vietnam's port city of Haiphong. Ten Air Force F-4 Phantoms were flying MIG combat air patrol to screen the force from enemy fighters, while an F-105 Wild Weasel decoy force launched a raid on enemy surface-to-air missile sites. Five A-1 Skyraiders with the call sign "Peach One to Five", arrived on station to suppress ground fire around the enemy camp.
As the group neared the prison, the two "Jolly Greens", dubbed "Apple-4" and "Apple-5" hovered at 1,500 feet to act as reserve flareships in the event the C-130s' flares did not ignite.
Suddenly, Major Frederick M. "Marty" Donohue's HH-53 helicopter, call sign "Apple-3", developed trouble. Without warning, a yellow trouble light appeared signaling transmission problems. Donohue calmly informed his co-pilot, Captain Tom Waldron, to "ignore the SOB". In a normal situation, Donohue would have landed. But this was no normal mission. "Apple-3" kept going. As Donohue's chopper "floated" across Son Tay's main compound, the door gunners let loose 4,000 rounds a minute from their mini-guns. The observation tower in the northwest section of the camp erupted into flames. With that, Donohue set down at his "holding point" in a rice paddy just outside the prison.
As Major Herb Kalen tried to negotiate a landing inside the compound, the almost lost control of his chopper, call sign "Banana-1", that was carrying the assault group code-named "Blueboy".
The 40-foot trees that surrounded Son Tay were, in actuality, much larger. "One tree", a pilot remembered, "must have been 150 feet tall ... we tore into it like a big lawn mower. There was a tremendous vibration ... and we were down."
Luckily, only one person was injured; a crew chief suffered a broken ankle. Regaining his composure, Special Forces Captain Richard Meadows scurried from the downed aircraft and said in a calm voice through his bullhorn: "We're Americans. Keep your heads down. We're Americans. Get on the floor. We'll be in your cells in a minute." No one answered back, though. The raiders sprung into action immediately. Automatic weapons ripped into the guards. Other NVA, attempting to flee, were cut down as they tried to make their way through the east wall. Fourteen men entered the prison to rescue the POWs. However, to their disappointment, none were found.
As the raiders were neutralizing the compound, Lieutenant Colonel John Allison's helicopter, call sign "Apple-2", with the "Redwine" group aboard, was heading toward Son Tay's south wall. As his door gunners fired their mini-guns on the guard towers, Allison wondered where "Apple-1" was. Code-named "Greenleaf", it was carrying "Bull" Simons. Allison put his HH-3 inside the compound and the Special Forces personnel streamed down the rear ramp. Wasting no time, they blew the utility pole and set up a roadblock about 100 yards from the landing zone (LZ). A heated firefight ensued. Guards were "scurrying like mice" in an attempt to fire on the raiders. In the end, almost 50 NVA guards were killed at Son Tay.
"Apple-1", piloted by Lieutenant Colonel Warner A. Britton, was having troubles of its own. The chopper had veered off the mark and was 450 meters south of the prison and had erroneously landed at the "secondary school." Simons knew it wasn't Son Tay. The structures and terrain were different and, to everyone's horror, it was no "secondary school" - it was a barracks filled with enemy soldiers - 100 of whom were killed in five minutes.
Three of the Son Tay Raiders in full battle gear. (From Left to Right) SFC Donald D. Blackard, SFC Gregory T. McGuire, and SFC Freddie D. Doss
As the chopper left, the raiders opened up with a barrage of automatic weapons. Captain Udo Walther cut down four enemy soldiers and went from bay to bay riddling their rooms with his CAR-15. Realizing their error, the group radioed "Apple-1" to return and pick up the raiders from their dilemma.
Simons, meanwhile, jumped into a trench to await the return of Britton when an NVA leaped into the hole next to him. Terrified, and wearing only his underwear, the Vietnamese froze. Simons pumped six shells from his .357 Magnum handgun into the trooper's chest, killing him instantly.
Britton's chopper quickly returned when he received the radio transmission that Simon's group was in the wrong area. He flew back to Son Tay and deposited the remaining raiders there. Things were beginning to wind down. There was little resistance from the remaining guards.
Meadows radioed to Lieutenant Colonel Elliot P. "Bud" Sydnor, the head of the "Redwine" group on the raid, "Negative items". There were no POWs. The raid was over. Total time elapsed was 27 minutes.
What went wrong? Where were the POWs? It would be later learned that the POWs had been relocated to Dong Hoi, on July 14. Their move was not due to North Vietnam learning of the planned rescue attempt but because of an act of nature. The POWs were moved because the well in the compound had dried up and the nearby Song Con River, where Son Tay was located, had begun to overflow its banks. This flooding problem, not a security leak, resulted in the prisoners being transported to Dong Hoi to a new prison nicknamed "Camp Faith". Murphy's Law - "Whatever can go wrong will go wrong" - had struck again.
Was the raid then a failure? Despite the intelligence failure, the raid was a tactical success. The assault force got to the camp and took their objective. It's true no POWs were rescued, but no friendly lives were lost in the attempt. Furthermore, and more importantly, the raid sent a clear message to the North Vietnam that Americans were outraged at the treatment our POWs were receiving and that we would go to any length to bring our men home. At Dong Hoi, 15 miles to the east of Son Tay, American prisoners woke up to the sound of surface-to-air missiles being launched, the prisoners quickly realized that Son Tay was being raided. Although they knew they had missed their ride home, these prisoners now knew for sure that America cared and that attempts were being made to free them. Morale soared. The North Vietnamese got the message. The raid triggered subtle but important changes in their treatment of American POWs. Within days, all of the POWs in the outlying camps had been moved to Hanoi. Men who had spent years by themselves in a cell found themselves sharing a cell with dozens of others. From their point of view the raid was the best thing that could have happened to them short of their freedom. In the final assessment, the raid may not have been a failure after all.
Political cartoonist R.B. Crockett of the Washington Star said it best, and first, the day after the news of the Son Tay raid broke. At the top of the Star's editorial page was a drawing of a bearded, gaunt POW. His ankle chained to a post outside his hutch. He looks up watching the flight of American Helicopters fade into the distance. Below the cartoon is a three word quote: "Thanks for trying".
Brigadier General Leroy J. Manor, Colonel Simons, SFC Adderly, and TSgt Leroy W. Wright were decorated by President Nixon at the White House on November 25, 1970 for their parts in the rescue attempt. The remainder of the raiders were decorated by Secretary of Defense Melvin R. Laird at Fort Bragg, North Carolina on December 9, 1970. Click here for a complete list of awardees.
The Son Tay Raid would not be Colonel Simons last attempt to free prisoners in a foreign country. In early 1979 , after his retirement, Colonel Simons was asked by Ross Perot, then Chairman of EDS, to plan and conduct a rescue operation to free two Electronic Data Systems, Inc (EDS) employees who were taken hostage by the Iranian government. In February 1979,Colonel Simons planning efforts proved successful as he organized a mob in Tehran which stormed Gazre prison where the EDS employees were being held hostage. The two Americans, along with 11,000 Iranian prisoners, were freed. Col. Simons and his party fled 450 miles to Turkey, and were later returned to the United States. Noted author, Ken Follet, wrote a best selling novel, "On Wings of Eagles", (Morrow & Company, 1983) about the rescue. The book was later made into an NBC TV mini series.
Colonel Simons died of heart complications three months later.
|
TOPICS: VetsCoR
KEYWORDS: bullsimons; freeperfoxhole; michaeldobbs; pows; sontay; veterans; vietnam; warriorwednesday
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-20, 21-40, 41-49 next last
The Raid on Son Tay
On the night of 20 November 1970 at 2300 hours, five HH-53s and one HH-3 helicopter took off with fifty-six Special Forces Soldiers from Udorn Royal Thai Air Force Base in Thailand. The aircraft would refuel over Laos and enter North Vietnamese airspace from the west. The target of the helo borne assault was the Son Tay Prisoner of War (POW) Camp located 23 miles northwest of the North Vietnamese capital of Hanoi. The flight from Udorn to Son Tay was approximately 337 miles one way.
Colonel Arthur D. "Bull" Simons, answers questions about the Son Tay POW Rescue Raid from the Pentagon Press Corps. Also in the picture are (left to right): Melvin R. Laird, Secretary of Defense; Admiral Thomas H. Moorer, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; and Air Force Brigadier General Leroy J. Manor, who commanded the overall operation.
It was believed that at least 60 American Prisoners of war were being held captive at the Son Tay facility. The camp was believed to have been active since May of 1968. Evidence in May of 1970 suggested the camp was being enlarged.
The lead HH-53 arrived over Son Tay POW camp at approximately 0200 hours the morning of 21 November. As planned, the lead helo would take the guard towers and barrack buildings under fire with its two 4,000 round per minute Gatling guns. Once the lead helo cleared the compound, the HH-3 made a controlled crash landing inside the courtyard of the walled prison. Aboard the aircraft was a 14-man assault force commanded by CPT Richard Meadows, the assault force commander. This element was code named Blueboy and had the mission of clearing all cellblocks, freeing American POWs, and neutralizing any enemy resistance within the compound. Once the POWs were freed, the assault force would blow a hole in the south wall of the compound and lead the POWs to a waiting evacuation helo.
Navy diversion aircraft were flying from carriers and conducting diversionary strikes in the Haiphong and Hanoi area. This diversionary maneuver, prior to the Raid force reaching Son Tay, caused the North Vietnamese air defense sectors to focus their attention east thus allowing the Raid force to slide in the back door from the west.
Defense Secretary Melvin R. Laird decorates the Special Forces soldiers and airman who assaulted the Son Tay compound
At the same time the Blueboy element was searching for the US POWs, the Redwine element had landed south of the compound with the mission of clearing buildings, securing a landing zone, and blocking a road network to the south, preventing enemy personnel or vehicles from entering the target area (Son Tay) from the south. At the same time, the Greenleaf element was to land east of the compound and clear buildings and secure a road to the north, again preventing enemy personnel and vehicles from coming from the north. However, the helo carrying the Greenleaf element made a navigational error, landing some 400 meters southwest of the Son Tay Compound at a facility only known as a secondary school. On insertion, a huge firefight broke out between the Greenleaf element and an unknown number of enemy soldiers. To this day, the nationality of these enemy soldiers remains unknown. Some have commented through the years that they were Russian or Chinese advisors. Members of the Greenleaf element would only say later that the soldiers were taller than the average Vietnamese. (All members of the raiding force, except for three, had been to Viet Nam before, many serving multiple tours.)
As the fire fight continued, LTC Sydnor, the ground force commander at the Son Tay compound, realized the Greenleaf element had not landed at Son Tay as planned. He put Plan Green into effect. Plan Green called for the Redwine element not only to cover their responsibilities to the south, but now they must cover Greenleafs responsibilities to the east and north as well. Meanwhile at the secondary school, as the firefight continued, Col Simons, the Deputy Task Force Commander, was having his radio operator recall the helo. I believe Lt Col Warner Britton, pilot of Apple 1, had already realized the mistake. After dropping the Greenleaf element and gaining altitude, he now saw two huge firefights taking place separated by 400 meters. He immediately rolled the helo over and was inbound to the secondary school to pick up Simons men and reinsert them into the correct target area. In all, the fight at the secondary school lasted about five minutes. Some sixteen enemy soldiers were believed killed with no injuries to friendly forces.
Lt Col Britton effected the pickup and flew Simons men to the Son Tay compound, landing south of the facility. The Greenleaf element was required to do a passage of lines through the Redwine element a tricky maneuver, especially at night. No friendly forces suffered any injuries during this passage.
About the time the Greenleaf element was in its position on the east side of the compound, radio traffic from the Blueboy element inside the prison was indicating there were negative items, a coded phrase that meant no US prisoners were found. Once that was confirmed by the Ground Force Commander, the helos were recalled from their holding area, approximately 3 miles west of Son Tay. Prior to leaving the prison, the Blueboy element destroyed the HH-3 that had crash landed inside the courtyard of the prison. The HH-3 was never intended to fly out as the courtyard was too small of an area.
After picking up the force, the helos headed west to an aircraft air refuel point over Laos. It was a long three and a half hour flight back to Udorn, Thailand. We could not believe no prisoners were present. After three months of training, over 170 rehearsals, half of which were conducted with live fire, we had just hit a dry hole. (In later discussions with ex-Son Tay prisoners, we learned they had been moved in July 1970 for unknown reasons.)
For his efforts in planning and conducting the Son Tay Raid Colonel Arthur D. "Bull" Simons was presented the Distinguished Service Cross by president Richard M. Nixon in a White House Ceremony
The entire operation took twenty-seven minutes from touchdown to takeoff, including the visit to the secondary school. The only injuries suffered by friendly forces were one gun shot wound to the leg of a Raider and a broken foot suffered by the Flight Engineer on the HH-3 during the crashing of the HH-3 in the courtyard. It is estimated as many as 30 to 50 North Vietnamese were killed including those at the secondary school.
One of our Wild Weasel F-105 aircraft was shot down by a surface to air missile (SAM). Shot down is probably not the correct term. The SAM exploded near the aircraft riddling the fuel tank of the F-105 with holes. According to the pilot, the aircraft was still flyable but just ran out of gas due to the holes in the fuel tank. Both pilot and electric warfare officer were able to bail out over Laos. They both were recovered after first light on the morning of 21 November.
Training for the Raid began in August of 1970 and ended on or about 10 November 1970. At that point forces were deployed to Thailand for final preparations for the Raid. The training was conducted at Elgin Air Force Base, Florida, at Auxiliary Field 3, the same training area used by General Jimmy Doolittles Raiders in preparing for their bombing raid over Tokyo, Japan in early 1942. Training was conducted in three phases. Phase I was to physically condition the force, conduct land navigation both day and night, weapons firing using the M-16 rifle, M-79 grenade launcher, M-60 machine gun, .45 cal pistol, and the M-72 LAW (light-anti-tank-weapon), target identification, etc. Shooting was conducted during day and night range operations. In Phase II the force was selected from a pool of 100 personnel based on physical condition, shooting skills, land navigation abilities, and other skills. The force was organized into three platoons: 1st Platoon, Redwine element (command and security - 20 personnel); 2nd Platoon, Blueboy element (assault force - 14 personnel); and 3rd Platoon, Greenleaf element (security and support - 22 personnel). During this phase, the force began training together on a mockup camp. Shooting skills continued to be honed as well as target identification (identifying bad guys from friendlies). During Phase III, the army elements trained with the air force elements. Over the three-month training period each ground element learned and knew their air crews. This was important due to the bond and trust that was formed. In all, more than 170 rehearsals were conducted during daytime and nighttime conditions. At no time did the Raiders know the true target. It was only after the final briefing on 20 November prior to leaving for the launch site at Udorn, Thailand that Son Tay was identified.
A1E's leading HC-130P, refueling a HH-53
The total number of airplanes to support the Raid was 116. Most of these were Navy aircraft flying in the Haiphong and Hanoi area. Son Tay aircraft included 5 HH-53s (call sign Apple 1-5); 1 HH-3 (call sign Banana 1); 5 A-1E skyraiders (call sign Peach 1-5) providing close air support; 5 F-105s (call sign Firebird 1-5) targeting SAM sites; and 10 F-4s (call sign Falcon 1-10) providing protection from MIG aircraft should they launch. The refuel aircraft were Limes 1 and 2, and they were HC-130Ps which provided fuel for the helos over Laos going to and returning from Son Tay.
To: AntiJen; snippy_about_it; Victoria Delsoul; bentfeather; radu; SpookBrat; bluesagewoman; HiJinx; ...
A POW's-Eye View of the Raid
Air Force Association President R. E. Smith was one of the prisoners at Son Tay. On October 25, 1967, he was an Air Force major flying out of Takhli RTAFB, Thailand, in an F-105 from the 355th Tactical Fighter Wing when he was shot down by ground fire. His target that day was the Paul Doumer Bridge over the Red River at Hanoi. His right leg was badly injured on bailout and, upon hitting the ground, he was shot twice in the left thigh by a North Vietnamese soldier. Fortunately, no bones or arteries were severed.
RAIDER - SON TAY
VIETNAM - 1970
His captors immediately undressed him with a machete, wired his hands together, and took him to Hanoi. En route, onlookers threw bricks and stones at him and beat him with sticks. "I was very lucky to have made it into the prison," he says. "I suspect many MIAs were not as lucky after they were caught and were killed by spectators."
While Mr. Smith escaped death at the hands of the spectators, he did not escape the torture, beatings, and solitary confinement that all American POWs suffered from the prison guards.
He spent the next eight months in the Hoa Lo Prison ("Hanoi Hilton"), then was transferred to Son Tay in July 1968. He and fifty-six others were taken from Son Tay in July 1970, four months before the raid, and locked up elsewhere before ending up in the Hanoi Hilton four days after the raid.
Why were the prisoners moved? Mr. Smith believes the North Vietnamese were trying to improve the treatment and conditions of the POWs. He never saw any indication that rising water was the reason for their removal. "Neither is there any intelligence information, to my knowledge, that the Vietnamese knew the US was coming and therefore moved the POWs," he adds. "I think we were moved so that we would all be in a centrally located prison where we could be more easily handled logistically."
About three or four months after the raid, he says, "We got indications that something had happened at Son Tay . . . from the Vietnam Free Press, a propaganda rag printed in several languages. It said a bombing raid had been conducted on the town of Son Tay and that many Americans had been killed.
COL Arthur D. "Bull" Simons Statue outside the JFK Special Warfare Museum
"We were absolutely elated when we learned of the raid. From our standpoint, it was the single most significant event in terms of POW life that happened in North Vietnam. It brought us together; it allowed us to be better organized; it reinforced the belief that the US would go to any length to see that we were returned. Disappointed that the raid did not work? Yes, but so very proud of the men and our country for the effort."
Mr. Smith was repatriated March 14, 1973, and remained on active duty until August 1978. He was elected Air Force Association President in September 1994.
Additional Sources: www.sfalx.com
www.wpafb.af.mil
http://www.patriotfiles.com
www.afa.org
www.tropaselite.hpg.ig.com.br
http://www.sontayraider.com
aircommandoman.tripod.com
To: All
On November 20-21, 1970, a joint force composed of USAF Special Operations and rescue personnel and U.S. Army Special Forces, supported by U.S. Navy Carrier Task Force 77, made a daring raid on the Son Tay prison camp located less than 30 miles from Hanoi, North Vietnam. The objective was to rescue as many as 100 U.S. captives thought to be held there. The assault troops, in six ARRS helicopters accompanied by two C-130 aircraft, flew 400 miles to Son Tay from bases in Thailand. U.S. Navy pilots made a diversionary raid while 116 USAF and Navy aircraft from seven air bases and three aircraft carriers flew refueling, surface-to-air missile suppression, fighter cover, close air support, early warning, communications support and reconnaissance missions. Although no prisoners were found in camp, the raid was a brillant success in transporting, landing and recovering an assault force of 92 USAF and 56 Army personnel without the loss of a single man.
Although no prisoners were rescued, the raid focused world attention on the plight of the prisoners of war (POWs), raised their morale and resulted in improved living conditions for all U.S. prisoners of the North Vietnamese. The men of the Joint Task Force earned the admiration of their countymen for risking their lives in an attempt to bring freedom to others.
Colonel Arthur D. "Bull" Simons
'We are going to rescue 70 American prisoners of war, maybe more, from a camp called Son Tay. This is something American prisoners have a right to expect from their fellow soldiers. The target is 23 miles west of Hanoi.' -- Colonel Arthur "Bull" Simons |
To: All
***** To ***** ProfEngineer;Psyop;Samwise;comitatus;copperheadmike;MonkeyFace;WhiskeyPapa;New Zealander;Pukin Dog;Coleus;Colonel_Flagg;w_over_w;hardhead; 4.1O dana super trac pak;4integrity;Al B.;alberta's child;Alkhin; Alouette;AnAmericanMother;Andiceman;AntiJen;aomagrat;apackof2; archy;Armymarinemom;AZFlyboy;bandleader;barker;BeechF33A;Bentfeather; billbears; BlackPowder;bluesagewoman;bonehead4freedom;bybybill; Cherry_bomb88;Ches;CholeraJoe;Colt .45;colorado tanker;concentric circles;ConservativebyChoice;Darksheare;dd5339;demlosers;diver dave; Do the Dew;E.G.C.;enemy of the people;Ernest at the Beach;EternalVigilance;ex-snook;F-117A;Feinswinesuksass; Fiddlstix;floriduhvoter;foxette;Future Snake Eater;GailA;Gator Navy; GatorGirl;gc4nra;Godebert;gooberdoll;gore3000;Graewoulf; gridlock;GulfWar1Vet;gwmoore;Humal;HiJinx;Hillarys Gate Cult; I think therefore I am;I_be_tc;Iris7;Jeff Head;Johnny Gage; jriemer;jtill;katze;KDD;ken5050;kilowhskey;kneezles;krb;ladtx; larryjohnson;Lee Heggy;Light Speed;litany of lies;Long Cut;maestro; manna;MeeknMing;meenie;Michael121;mistyca;Mo1;momwithhope;Mon; Mortimer Snavely;Mudboy Slim;Myrddin;NEWwoman;nickcarraway; Northern Yankee;Oldeconomybuyer;par35;PhiKapMom;Phildragoo; pippin;Prodigal Daughter;quietolong;Radix;Radu;rangerwife; Reaganwuzthebest;rabidralph;rastermaster;redhead;RobbyS; rustbucket;sailor4321;SamAdams76;SAMWolf;sanchmo;sassymom;SCDogPapa; SENTINEL;sheltonmac;skeeter;SMEDLEYBUTLER;snippy about it;snopercod; souris;sparta;spookbrat;Spruce;stainlessbanner;stand watie; steveegg;tarawa;TEXOKIE;texson66;texas booster;thatdewd;the real deal; TheRedSoxWinThePennant;tomball;TxBec;U S Army EOD;valin; Vets_Husband_and_Wife;Victoriadelsoul;warchild9;WaterDragon; weldgophardline;Wraith;wvnan;X-FID;xJones;
.......FALL IN to the FReeper Foxhole!
.......Good Morning Everyone!
If you would like added or removed from our ping list let me know.
To: tmprincesa; SAMWolf; snippy_about_it; Darksheare; radu
Good morning Sam, snippy everyone!
How be ya'll today?
Thanks for loading up the Foxhole, tmprincesa! You done good.
To: tmprincesa
Great thread. Thanks.
7
posted on
09/03/2003 6:25:10 AM PDT
by
CholeraJoe
(In other news: Cruz Bustamante will neither confirm nor deny that he's a racist.)
To: tmprincesa
Great post, TM!
A dear friend of mine, much like Roger to your Dad, worked with the Buffalo Hunter drones during his time in the Air Force. At differing times he worked as a controller in the C-130, a linguist in RB-50's, and later as a film retriever. One of his more frightening moments was when his C-130 was 'attacked' by a Buffalo Hunter drone. Their covering fighters didn't intercept what they thought was a MiG until after it was well past the C-130.
Have a great day!
8
posted on
09/03/2003 6:38:07 AM PDT
by
HiJinx
(The Right person, in the Right place, at the Right time...)
To: tmprincesa
On This Day In History
Birthdates which occurred on September 03:
1596 Nicolo Amati Italy, violin maker (Stradivari & Guarneri)
1757 Charles X Versailles France, Duke of Prussia
1803 Prudence Crandall founded school for "young ladies of colour"
1811 John Humphrey Noyes Vt, found Oneida Community (Perfectionists)
1856 Louis Henri Sullivan Boston Mass, father of modern US architecture
1860 Edward Albert Filene merchant, established US credit union movement
1866 Alain Locke famous African
1905 Carl David Anderson NYC, physicist (1936 Nobel Prize for physics)
1907 Andrew Brewin Canada, lawyer/cofound New Democratic Party
1907 Dr Loren Eiseley professor of Anthropology (Animal Secrets)
1910 Dorothy Maynor Norfolk Va, soprano (founded Harlem School of Arts)
1913 Alan Ladd actor (Shane, Carpetbaggers, Boy on a Dolphin)
1914 Kitty Carlisle Hart New Orleans La, actress (Animal Crackers)
1914 Dixie Lee Ray, Chair of the Atomic Energy Commission who received the U.N. Peace Prize in 1977.
1917 Eddie "Brat" Stanky Phil Rizzuto's nemesis/2nd baseman (Dodgers)
1918 Helen Wagner Lubbock Tx, actress (Nancy-As The World Turns)
1923 Mort Walker cartoonist (Beetle Bailey)
1923 Terry Wilson Calif, actor (Bill-Wagon Train)
1926 Anne Jackson Penn, actress (Dirty Dingus Magee, Angel Levine)
1926 Irene Papas actress (Anne of Thousand Days, Guns of Navarone, Z)
1931 Mitzi Gaynor Chicago Ill, actress (South Pacific)
1935 Eileen Brennan LA Calif, actress (Laugh-In, Pvt Benjamin)
1940 Pauline Collins London England, actress (Shirley Valentine)
1942 Al Jardine rocker (Beachboys-In My Room)
1944 Sherwood C "Woody" Spring Hartford Ct, Col USA/astronaut (STS 61B)
1944 Valerie Perrine Galveston Tx, actress (Steam Bath, Superman, Slaughterhouse 5)
1945 Mike Harrison keyboardist (Spooky Tooth-It's All About)
1965 Charlie Sheen actor (Carlos Estevez), NYC, actor (Wall St, Platoon)
1971 Tonja Christenson Salt Lake City Utah, playmate (November, 1991)
Deaths which occurred on September 03:
1189 Rabbi Jacob of Orleans killed in anti Jewish riot in London England
1658 James I king of England (1603-25), dies at 92
1658 Oliver Cromwell the Lord Protector of England, dies at 59
1917 Fanya Kaplan, Russian who shot at Lenin on Aug 30th, executed
1962 e. e. cummings poet, dies at 67
1969 Ho Chi Minh North Vietnamese president, dies
1970 Vince Lombardi football coach, dies in Washington DC at 57
1982 Michael Thoma actor (8 is Enough, Fame), dies at 55
1984 Arthur Schwartz actor, dies after a stroke at 83
1984 Duncan Renaldo actor (Cisco Kid), dies at 80
1990 David Acer Florida dentist, dies of AIDs after infecting 5 patients
1991 Frank Capra director (It's a Wonderful Life), dies at 94
1992 Nobel laureate geneticist Barbara McClintock
Reported: MISSING in ACTION
1966 TRUJILLO JOSEPH FELIX DEMING NM.
[REMAINS RETURNED 11/17/92]
1967 PIRKLE LOWELL ZINH
[REMAINS RETURNED 31 OCT 94]
1967 MOORE HERBERT W. JR. IMPERIAL PA.
1968 FRAZIER PAUL R. MILWAUKEE WI.
POW / MIA Data & Bios supplied by
the P.O.W. NETWORK. Skidmore, MO. USA.
On this day...
590 St Gregory I begins his reign as Catholic Pope
1189 England's King Richard I (the Lion-Hearted) crowned in Westminster
1260 Mamelukes under Sultan Qutuz defeat Mongols and Crusaders at Ain Jalut
1651 Battle at Worcester -- Oliver Cromwell destroys English royalists
1658 Richard Cromwell succeeds his father as English Lord Protector
1683 Turkish troops break through defense of Vienna
1752 This day never happened nor the next 10 as England adopts Gregorian Calendar. People riot thinking the govt stole 11 days of their lives
1777 The American flag was flown in battle for the first time during a Revolutionary War skirmish at Cooch's Bridge, Maryland.
1783 Treaty of Paris signed (ending the US Revolutionary War)
1826 USS Vincennes leaves NY to become 1st warship to circumnavigate globe
1833 NY Sun begins publishing (1st daily newspaper)
1838 Frederick Douglass escapes from slavery disguised as a sailor
1849 Calif State Constitutional Convention convenes in Monterey
1852 Anti Jewish riots break out in Stockholm
1861 Confederate forces enter Kentucky, thus ending its neutrality
1865 Army commander in SC orders Freedmen's Bureau to stop seizing land
1891 Cottonpickers organize union & stage strike in Texas
1891 John Stephens Durham, named minister to Haiti
1895 First professional football game was played in Latrobe, PA. (later became the Pittsburgh Steelers training camp) The Latrobe YMCA defeated the Jeannette Athletic Club 12-0.
1900 British annex Natal (South Africa)
1902 Start of Sherlock Holmes "The Adventure of the Illustrious Client"
1903 Resolute beats Shamrock III (England) in 13th America's Cup
1904 St Louis Olympics close
1906 Yanks win 2nd game on a forfeit over A's; 2nd forfeit win
1912 World's 1st cannery opens in England to supply food to the navy
1914 Cardinal Giacome della Chiesa becomes Pope Benedict XV
1916 Allies turned back Germans in WW I's Battle of Verdun
1917 Grover Cleveland Alexander pitches complete wins in a doubleheader
1918 5 soldiers hanged for alleged participation in Houston riot of 1917
1925 1st international handball match held
1925 Dirigible "Shenandoah" crashed near Caldwell Ohio, 13 die
1930 Hurricane kills 2,000, injures 4,000 (Dominican Republic)
1932 Ellsworth Vines beats Henri Cochet for US tennis title
1934 Tunisia began its move for independence
1935 1st automobile to exceed 300 mph, Sir Malcolm Campbell (301.337 mph)
1935 Andrew Varipapa sets bowling record of 2,652 points in 10 games
1939 Yanks beat Red Sox on a forfeit, their 4th forfeit win
1939 Britain declares war on Germany. France follows 6 hours later quickly joined by Australia, New Zealand, South Africa & Canada
1940 1st showing of high definition color TV
1940 US gives Britain 50 destroyers in exchange for Newfoundland base lease
1943 Allies invade Italy
1944 Frank Parker beats Bill Talbert for US tennis title
1945 Japanese forces in the Philippines surrender to Allies
1947 Phila A's Bill McCahan no-hits Wash Senators, 3-0
1947 Yanks get 18 singles to beat Red Sox 11-2
1951 TV soap opera "Search for Tomorrow" debuts on CBS
1954 Pope Pius X canonized a saint
1957 Warren Spahn sets record for a lefty pitcher with 41st shut-out
1957 KTCA TV channel 2 in St Paul-Minneapolis, MN (PBS) begins broadcasting
1964 Wilderness Act signed into law by President Lyndon B Johnson
1965 Jim Hickman becomes the 1st NY Met to hit 3 HRs in a game
1966 24th World SF Convention honors Gene Roddenberry
1967 Final episode of "What's My Line?," hosted by John Charles Daly
1967 Nguyen Van Thieu elected pres of S Vietnam under a new constitution
1967 Sweden begins driving on right-hand side of road
1968 Chicago White Sox set AL record of 39 losses by 1 run
1970 Billy Williams ends then longest NL consecutive streak at 1,117 games
1971 John Lennon leaves the UK for NYC, never to return
1971 Qatar regains complete independence from Britain
1971 Watergate team breaks into Daniel Ellsberg's doctor's office
1974 NBA guard Oscar Robinson retires
1975 Chartered 707 crashes in Atlas Mts of Morocco, 188 die
1975 Steve Garvey begins his NL record 1,207 consecutive game streak
1976 Viking 2 soft lands on Mars (Utopia), returns photos
1978 Crew of Soyuz 31 returns to Earth aboard Soyuz 29
1978 Pope John Paul I officially installed as 264th supreme pontiff
1979 Hurricane David, a strong Atlantic storm kills over 1,000
1981 Gerald P Remy of Boston gets 6 hits in a baseball game
1981 Longest game in Fenway Park, completed in 20, Mariners-8, Red Sox-7
1984 28 year old Chicagoan wins $40 million in Illinois state lottery
1985 20th Space Shuttle Mission (51-I)-Discovery 6-returns to Earth
1985 NY Met Gary Carter hits 3 consecutive HRs in a game
1986 Astros & Cubs use a record 53 players in an 18 inning game
1990 9th no-hitter of 1990: Blue Jay Dave Steib beats Cleve 3-0
1990 Helen Hudson sings national anthem in 26th park of year (San Diego)
1997 Arizona Gov. Fife Symington was convicted of fraud by a federal jury in Phoenix. He resigned two days later, becoming the third governor in recent years to quit because of a criminal conviction.
2001 The U.S. and Israel walked out of the United Nations Conference on racism in Durban, South Africa.
Holidays
Note: Some Holidays are only applicable on a given "day of the week"
Monaco : Liberation Day
Qatar : Independence Day (1971)
San Marino : Founding Day
Tunisia : Memorial Day (1934)
Namibia, South Africa : Settlers' Day (Monday)
US, Canada, Guam, Virgin Islands : Labor Day (1894) (Monday)
National Spanish Green Olive Week (Day 4)
Mental Health Workers Week (Day 4)
Hot Breakfast Month
Do It Day
Religious Observances
RC : Memorial of St Gregory I the Great, pope/doctor
Old Catholic : Feast of St Pius X, pope (1903-14) (now 8/21)
Feast of St. Simeon Stylites
Religious History
590 St. Gregory the Great was consecrated the 64th Catholic pope, ruling 14 years. Gregory's administration took responsibility for converting the Anglo-Saxon tribes in England, chiefly through the work of St. Augustine of Canterbury.
1752 This date became September 14th, when Great Britain (including Scotland, Ireland, Wales and the American colonies) officially implemented the Gregorian Calendar (developed by Pope Gregory XIII in 1582 to replace the Julian calendar).
1776 Anglican clergyman and hymnwriter John Newton wrote in a letter: 'The love I bear Christ is but a faint and feeble spark, but it is an emanation from himself: He kindled it and he keeps it alive; and because it is his work, I trust many waters shall not quench it.'
1934 In London, Evangeline Cory Booth, 69, the seventh child of founder William Booth (1829-1912), became the fourth elected commander and the first woman general of the Salvation Army.
1946 Founder Sidney N. Correll established United World Mission. This interdenominational agency focuses on evangelism, church planting and Christian education in 13 world countries.
Source: William D. Blake. ALMANAC OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH. Minneapolis: Bethany House, 1987.
Thought for the day :
Men are not prisoners of fate, but only prisoners of their own minds.
You Might Be Too Canadian if...
Your graduation formal dress was made of flannel.
Murphys Law of the day...
Every solution breeds new problems.
Cliff Clavin says, it's a little known fact that...
Females have 500 more genes than males, and because of this are protected from things like color blindness and hemophilia.
9
posted on
09/03/2003 6:39:01 AM PDT
by
Valin
(America is a vast conspiracy to make you happy.)
To: *all
Air Power HH-3 "Jolly Green Giant"
|
The HH-3E helicopter is a modified version of the CH-3 transport helicopter. Fifty CH-3Es were converted to HH-3Es. These 50 CH-3Es were modified for combat rescue missions with armor, defensive armament, self-sealing fuel tanks, a rescue hoist, and in-flight refueling capability. It was developed for aircrew rescue missions deep into North Vietnam during the Vietnam War. Many downed aircrews were rescued by Jolly Green Giants and their crews.
The HH-3E, which arrived in Vietnam in 1967, gave the Aerospace Rescue and Recovery Service (ARRS). a significant capability. Operating out of Udorn, Thailand, and Da Nang, South Vietnam, this helicopter could reach any point in North Vietnam and return to its home base. Capt. Gerald O. Young, ARRS pilot and recipient of the Medal of Honor. His HH-3E crashed during a rescue mission on November 8, 1967. Rather than allow the enemy to use as "bait" for an ambush, he led them away from the crash site. He was rescued the following day. The HH-3E was also specifically modified for rescue operations, to include communications equipment that was compatible with all other Allied aircraft operating in Southeast Asia. Today, the HH-3E continues its proud heritage with ARRS, and is an integral part of the Military Airlift Commands search and rescue mission.
The first non-stop trans-Atlantic flight by a helicopter was made by two Jolly Green Giants between May 30 and June 1, 1967, when they flew from New York City to the Paris Air Show. During that 4,270-mile flight, which took 30 hours and 46 minutes, each aircraft was aerially refueled nine times. The Jolly Green Giant flew 251 combat missions during Operation Desert Storm.
The HH-3E, the Jolly Green Giant, is a twin-engine, heavy-lift helicopter. It is used for search and recovery of personnel and aerospace hardware in support of global air and space operations. It is also used for combat and special operations. With the ability to operate from land or water, the Jolly Green Giant boasts combat rescue-related equipment including titanium armor plating, jettisonable external fuel tanks, internal self-sealing bladder-type fuel tanks under the cabin floor, a retractable in-flight refueling probe, two 7.62mm machine guns, a forest penetrator and a high speed rescue hoist with 240 feet of cable. The long-range helicopter has a hydraulically operated rear ramp for straight-in loading and a jettisonable sliding door on the starboard side at the front of the cabin. It has a gas turbine auxiliary power supply for independent field operations and built-in equipment for the removal and replacement of all major components in remote areas. The Jolly Green Giant has an automatic flight-control system, instrumentation for all-weather operation, and Doppler navigation equipment. Twin turboshaft engines are mounted side-by-side on top of the cabin, immediately forward of the main transmission. The aircraft also has a retractable tricycle-type landing gear.
The Defense Department's range support for Shuttle flights in the 1980s was extensive, and it applied to civilian as well as military missions. Military rescue forces were stationed at Transoceanic Abort Landing (TAL) sites in Africa and Spain. Shuttle contingency forces at Patrick AFB placed three military HH-3E helicopters (complete with aircrews, medical personnel and pararescue specialists) on alert at the Shuttle Landing Facility (SLF) at KSC for every Shuttle mission. Forces from the Air Force Reserve, the National Guard, U.S. European Command, US Air Forces Europe, the Coast Guard and the Navy were positioned to support an astronaut bailout during the launch phase of each Shuttle mission.
Specifications:
Contractor: Sikorsky Aircraft, Division of United Technologies
Type: General purpose, single rotary wing, twin turbine powered helicopter with emergency amphibious capabilities
Engines: Two General Electric T58-GE-5 turboshaft engines of 1,500 hp. each
Crew: Three
Aircraft Internal Capacity: 10+/- People
Rescue Hoist Lifting Capacity: 600 LBS
Cost: $796,000
Dimensions:
Main rotor diameter: 62 ft.
Fuselage Length: 73 ft. 0 in.
Height: 18 ft. 1 in.
Weight: 22,050 lbs. loaded
Performance :
Maximum speed: 177 mph.
Cruising speed: 154 mph.
Range: 779 miles with external fuel tanks
Service Ceiling: 21,000 ft.
Armaments:
Provisions for two .50-cal. machine guns
All photos Copyright of Global Security.Org
10
posted on
09/03/2003 7:39:40 AM PDT
by
Johnny Gage
(The Bureau of Incomplete Statistics reports that 1 out of 3.....)
To: Prof Engineer; PsyOp; Samwise; comitatus; copperheadmike; Monkey Face; WhiskeyPapa; ...
Good Morning from our remote base. Having a great time even though we are "kinda" working!
FALL IN TO THE FREEPER FOXHOLE
To: tmprincesa
Thanks Tracy. Good job!!!
To: snippy_about_it
Hey snippy, Sam, you got sun? It's so depressing here.
To: bentfeather
Morning Feather. Snippy says hi too
14
posted on
09/03/2003 7:47:52 AM PDT
by
SAMWolf
(Pray for our troops)
To: HiJinx
Hi HiJinx. Nothing better to ruin your day than getting shot at by your own side.
15
posted on
09/03/2003 7:49:25 AM PDT
by
SAMWolf
(Pray for our troops)
To: Valin
1752 This day never happened nor the next 10 as England adopts Gregorian Calendar. People riot thinking the govt stole 11 days of their lives And here I thought I was just on a good drunk!I
16
posted on
09/03/2003 7:51:21 AM PDT
by
SAMWolf
(Pray for our troops)
To: tmprincesa; snippy_about_it; SAMWolf
Morning Glory Princesa, Snip and Sam~
Outstanding work in Dad's absense . . . gotta go, lots to read.
17
posted on
09/03/2003 7:53:12 AM PDT
by
w_over_w
(You can fight SPAM . . . never order a McRibb sandwich.)
To: Johnny Gage
Thanks for profiling the "Jolly Green".
Wish I could find and post the Song "Jolly Green" done to the tune of "Abilene"
18
posted on
09/03/2003 7:54:24 AM PDT
by
SAMWolf
(Pray for our troops)
To: tmprincesa
Thanks Tracy.
19
posted on
09/03/2003 7:54:56 AM PDT
by
SAMWolf
(Pray for our troops)
To: bentfeather
Yeah we can see some "blue Sky".
20
posted on
09/03/2003 7:55:30 AM PDT
by
SAMWolf
(Pray for our troops)
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-20, 21-40, 41-49 next last
Disclaimer:
Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual
posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its
management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the
exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson